Feds raid Sabre Defense

[ghitch75]

has anyone just thought that they f*&Kup and sold or had something they shouldn't had?.....why is Obama always the bad guy when it comes to something no one knows the real answer too?.....this how crazy crap gets started on the net.....till everyone knows the facts it's just speculation....

 

[curraheeguns]

Yes, but the BTAF can make it pretty broad. Here is part of the Waco search warrant:

A quantity of firearms, including but not limited to: an assortment of AR-15 rifles and AK-47 rifles, and parts thereof, along with a quantity of assorted machinegun conversion partst

I still see this as specific. The item being search for is "a quantity of firearms and parts thereof". If an agency was forced to be detailed about every possible firearm that could possibly be inside the conpound then the document would be monsterous and unrealistic.

Also, as I read it the area in blue only pertains to the "a quantity of firearms and parts thereof" portion of the warrant which limits the need to list every firearm every made or that could have been homemade. Then the words I put in bold, "along with", seperate that "included but not limited to" phrase and goes on to list several more specific items.

Just my

Really boils down to the judge, they are the ones who allow the power or limit it when it comes to search warrants. The agency can only ask, and show what PC they have come up with.

 

[Andyccw]

FYI
Statement from Sabre
Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.
Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre's commercial customers.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Yeah but the "parts thereof" bit is the killer. A detent pin is 1/16 x 7/16 and qualifies as a "parts thereof". That allows a search of every oriface able to hold a detent pin, which means they can tear apart everything.

Anything illegal that is recovered incident to the search is admissible, as long as the warrant was properly sworn, issued, and served.

I still see this as specific. The item being search for is "a quantity of firearms and parts thereof". If an agency was forced to be detailed about every possible firearm that could possibly be inside the conpound then the document would be monsterous and unrealistic.

Also, as I read it the area in blue only pertains to the "a quantity of firearms and parts thereof" portion of the warrant which limits the need to list every firearm every made or that could have been homemade. Then the words I put in bold, "along with", seperate that "included but not limited to" phrase and goes on to list several more specific items.

Just my

Really boils down to the judge, they are the ones who allow the power or limit it when it comes to search warrants. The agency can only ask, and show what PC they have come up with.

 

[Tallenn]

*Put on your tin hats warning*

Maybe this was a legit raid and Sabre was actually breaking the law?

No tin hats needed to assume F-Troop is up to no good.

 

[Hoosier8]

FYI
Statement from Sabre
Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.
Sabre has more than 120 employees in its Nashville plant. Sabre’s biggest customer is the United States military. Sabre products used by United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan include .50 caliber barrels and components of the M2 Browning machine gun, 7.62 mm mini-gun barrels, and M-16A3 and A4 rifles. Sabre is the only non-public company in the world ever to be awarded a contract for a military spec M-16 rifle. Sabre is dedicated to continuing to provide high quality firearms to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and Sabre's commercial customers.

It is pretty obvious that the information they received probably came from the ATF. I wouldn't think this is abnormal if employees have been able to remove or resell items produced by Sabre. If they have been able to do this then product control comes into question. Not necessarily a direct Sabre problem. One can hope that the true cause will be handled with reason.

 

[pftraining_in]

FYI
Statement from Sabre
Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation.

Non-Saleable items would be Post 86 machine guns and parts and appropriate licenses would be FFLs. It would appear some employees have been building or selling machine guns on their off time.

 

[thompal]

bin Obama knows he cannot get the laws passed to outlaw guns. He's using his BATF to instead harrass and intimidate the manufacturers.

Gosh! An anti-gun president using BATF to intimidate and harass people? Who would have ever thought of that happening?

 

[thompal]

It's just Waco Jim Cavanaugh and his buds out there flexing the old muscles. Showing those nasty gun manufacturers who the real boss is. They're just lucky they didn't get locked in and burned to death. Good thing it was a factory and not a church.

There just weren't any kids present. Maybe BATF originally thought it was a family picnic day.

 

[thompal]

Probably part of the investigation involving this lawsuit mentioned in the article.

In December of last year, Aerospace Manufacturing Services of Colorado filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee claiming that it is owed $1.05 million for 2,400 .50-calibre machine gun firing bolts.

Aerospace Manufacturing Services, Inc. v. Sabre Defence Industries, LLC

Aerospace Manufacturing Services, Inc. v. Sabre Defence Industries, LLC - 3:2009cv01210 - Justia Federal District Court Filings and Dockets

After all, this involves defense contractors.

I fail to understand how the BATF would be involved in what is essentially a civil court case in Federal Court.

 

[DemolitionMan]

I fail to understand how the BATF would be involved in what is essentially a civil court case in Federal Court.

I doubt there's a direct connection but the gun community can be pretty close knit. I wonder if someone at Aerospace Manufacturing Services heard a rumor about illegal weapon sales at Sabre and supplied that to the ATF. There's a lot of money at stake and if AMS thinks they're getting shafted this would be a good way to get back at Sabre.

Of course all of the above is nothing but speculation and almost certainly not what really took place -- but I could see it happening.

 

[Srtsi4wd]

"Sabre Defence Industries LLC, an established manufacturer of firearms and weapon systems to the United States military, state and local law enforcement, and worldwide commercial markets, is fully cooperating with federal agents in an ongoing investigation into potential criminal misuse of certain non-saleable firearms produced by Sabre and purchased by some of its employees. Sabre has received information that employee(s) involved in inventory control may have obtained and re-sold some items without appropriate licenses. Sabre is and has been cooperating with federal agents in this investigation."

I will be very interested if the names of said "employees" are ever released or if they turn into singing canaries for F-Troop.

Prety sure that the truckload of Sabre products will end up next to the truckload of Cav Arms stuff. Probably have the same fate.