external safety hatred syndrome

[dom1104]

I know 5 people who have shot themselves or others.

They all had manual safeties.

Oh...

wait..

No they didnt.



I have no idea why someone would hate a manual safety, or hate guns without safeties.

Guns are dangerous, either way.

 

[Jay]

Guns aren't dangerous. They just lay there until a human picks 'em up. Then they become dangerous. Proficiency should be common sense for ANY firearm that's going to be a personal protection firearm.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

I have carried a 1911 cocked and locked for over 20 years. I see no difference between this and any non-saftied plastic gun. At least my 1911 has a grip and thumb safety on it. That means there are 2 back-ups to overcome by the trigger being pressed. Yes, they are man made and can thus fail, as can the "safe action" safeties. But I find this much safer than a Glock, M&P, or any other plastic gun without a safety of any sort.

I think it's a matter of comfort. Some people will not even carry a round in the chamber. That's okay too. We all have our comfort levels to satisfy. It sounds like Milkshakeed would not carry this way, while the OP may. Both are okay in my book.

 

[theweakerbrother]

KISS principle.

I am just literally too stupid to remember to flip that switch. I had an M&P in 45ACP with a thumb safety. Each range trip I had, I would draw and TRY to fire and forget to flip the switch. D'oh!

I bought the parts to remove the frame safety... I just couldn't afford .45.

 

[misconfig]

Cocked and locked for me with the 1911 - also with a Glock, I carry with 1 in the chamber.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

KISS principle.

I am just literally too stupid to remember to flip that switch. I had an M&P in 45ACP with a thumb safety. Each range trip I had, I would draw and TRY to fire and forget to flip the switch. D'oh!

I bought the parts to remove the frame safety... I just couldn't afford .45.

I love the self deprecating humor and honesty. I have been known to have the same problem at an IDPA match where I had to START the string of fire with my left (weak) hand. Right handed it was instinct. Left handed only, not so much! I had to practice until it was natural to click the safety off when shooting weak hand.

Milkshakeed I have to disagree just a little with your statement about speed having to cock a 1911. Cocking the gun changes your grip dramatically, while clicking off the safety does not. But again, it's about comfort level.

 

[joshuametivier]

I carry my 1911 cocked and locked. It remains cocked and locked in my night stand. I carry my Glock w/ a round chambered. It remains loaded in my night stand (ect, ect..). I have children as well. This is just how I do things. This may change in the future, and it may not. I entirely respect other gun owners preferences in the name of safety. There are many ways to do the same thing, and if you practice you will become proficient in any method of carry/safety you prefer.

Joshua

 

[Milkshakeed]

Wow really, the 1911 was only designed to be carried that way.

Just cause something is designed a certain way does not mean that it will not malfunction. I'll trust myself over a safety any day.

 

[Milkshakeed]

I agree with not relying on my safety, which is why I never point it at anyone. Besides, I'm asking you why you don't like it, not why I shouldn't like it.

I had a cousin shoot himself in his butt. For me personally I like to keep the chamber empty till I need to shoot. It was how I was brought up and I'd rather not soot myself in the butt.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I had a cousin shoot himself in his butt. For me personally I like to keep the chamber empty till I need to shoot. It was how I was brought up and I'd rather not soot myself in the butt.

You really need to take a training class, carrying unchambered is unwise, IMO

 

[Vince49]

No.

. By the way I carried a 1911 in Vietnam and can attest that the army insisted they be carried without a round in the chamber.

One more thing when you don't have a manual safety and a hammer don't you give up something in accuracy and speed to that double action trigger???[/QUOTE]

No, the Glocks I carry give up nothing in accuracy or speed to any single action pistol as they actually operate as as though they were single action. I too carried a 1911 in Viet-Nam for two tours and I can assure you that in the units I was in the chamber was always loaded (we were NOT REMF's). Having said all this, my familiarity with the 1911 is one of the primary reasons that my everyday carry and nightstand piece is now a Glock.

 

[Jay]

Personal preference is a good thing, but not always applicable to everyone else.

 

[Fireaxes]

Some of the responses are a bit strange to me.

I carry cocked and locked. The pistol was designed for it and is in no way unsafe to do so.

I use the features that the "whatever" weapon comes with. Manual safety, decocker or (my pet peeve) magazine disconnect safety.

Just because a gun has a safety doesn't mean I wave it around with my booger hook on the trigger. Just like I wouldn't drop the mag and try to pull the trigger on a gun with a mag safety.

Practice with the weapon you are going to carry. if you are worried about not getting the safety off, then you need to practice more. I've not heard one thing about anyone worrying about screwing up a draw from a holster. I've seen more people screw up the pistol presentation than miss a safety.

Final note, I take it all the manual safety haters never use the safety on a long gun?

 

[lovemachine]

I carry a Glock. I have another Glock in my house as a back up. I've trained with my EDC Glock. So I'm very comfortable carrying one. With a round chambered. And I inspect my holster every time I put it on.

I'd love to have a 1911. I've no idea if I'd carry it, 'cause I haven't trained with it.

But, I disagree with anyone that a gun with a manual safety is safer than one without. That's just BS.

 

[lovemachine]

Whichever gun you choose, just train with it. Manual safety or not, one is not better than the other.

 

[Fireaxes]

But, I disagree with anyone that a gun with a manual safety is safer than one without. That's just BS.

True, I'd add that a gun without a manual safety is no more unsafe than one with it. Cuts both ways, comes down to the person, safety starts between the ears.

 

[GoDawgs]

Interesting note from Massad Ayoob on the situation. I found this in a review of the subcompact Beretta Px4 (Tactical-Life.com » Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact 9MM):

"as much as I like to have the option of an on-safe gun, I think it passes the point of diminishing returns if the shooter can’t quickly and reflexively off-safe it on the draw. That seems to be a bit less of a problem with the Sub-Compact size Px4. And I have to say that over the years, I’ve seen countless cases where someone got the good guy’s gun away and tried to shoot him with it, but failed because the gun was on-safe, and no cases of trained people getting shot because they failed to off-safe their own pistol when they fired in self-defense. I did find one case of an untrained man who was shot and wounded because he forgot to off-safe a pistol of another brand, which he had not trained with. When asked why he hadn’t drilled with the “safety off, pull trigger” protocol, his reply was something like, “I’m not Rambo, all right?”"

I added the emphasis. Kinda interesting since it seems like notion on INGO is that you would forget to off-safety and that would risk your life - he has found almost the contrary, but ultimately believes that the external safeties are not necessary. I think it just makes the fair point that personal preference rules this debate.

Personally, I love my DA/SA w/ thumb safety. You never know when a moment will happen like when the guy with the bad holster whose Glock discharged in his car.

 

[Wwwildthing]

TheFiringLine Forums - View Single Post - 1911 vs Glock ADs ....

 

[kingnereli]

*snip

Final note, I take it all the manual safety haters never use the safety on a long gun?

That's a fantastic point that I have brought up here on occasion. The line of thought should be the same. If you're unvaryingly vigilant, realize the best safety is between your ears and want to avoid the slow and treacherous extra step before firing then a long guns safety should be treated with the same rancor as that of a pistol. Yet that isn't what I have found. It is logically inconsistent.

 

[crispy]

True, I'd add that a gun without a manual safety is no more unsafe than one with it. Cuts both ways, comes down to the person, safety starts between the ears.

The difference is..., people don't rant for days on end because some Glock doesn't have a safety.

99.99% of the rants are about guns that DO have a safety device.