Excessive Force? This guy needs a lawyer

[ModernGunner]

Had to go look up why this was brought up again, it seems the trial is now taking place.

Yessir, that's why I 'renewed' it. Was watching something about the trial on the news yesterday, and searched for the topic as I wasn't sure it had been mentioned.

As noted previously, I'll wait until the defense presents it case, and see how it addresses those aspects I, personally, find 'disturbing'.

IS Byron Smith some sadistic ol' sonofabich? Or, is he some guy that just finally had enough with people, and (IIRC) the same people, breaking into his home and the law doing nothing about it? Not sure.

Still, IMO, the 'moral' of the story is, if you don't break into someone's home, this never becomes an issue. As we have a presumption of innocence in this country, at least for now I'm willing to believe he was justified, and therefore innocent. The prosecution has to convince me otherwise, beyond a reasonable doubt. JMO.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

IS Byron Smith some sadistic ol' sonofabich? Or, is he some guy that just finally had enough with people, and (IIRC) the same people, breaking into his home and the law doing nothing about it? Not sure.

I wonder if a cop executed two downed suspects because he was finally had enough with people and the courts letting the scroats back out as quick as he could arrest them if we'd see the same question asked.

You don't execute the helpless, even if they were initially a threat.

Maybe the media's got it all wrong, maybe the recordings are being misrepresented, but there's just too much between the statements, the types of injuries, the dragging the bodies, the delay in reporting it, etc. for me to give him much benefit of the doubt of not being a murderer.

 

[stephen87]

I wonder if a cop executed two downed suspects because he was finally had enough with people and the courts letting the scroats back out as quick as he could arrest them if we'd see the same question asked.You don't execute the helpless, even if they were initially a threat.Maybe the media's got it all wrong, maybe the recordings are being misrepresented, but there's just too much between the statements, the types of injuries, the dragging the bodies, the delay in reporting it, etc. for me to give him much benefit of the doubt of not being a murderer.

I don't think MG is defending Smith, I think he's pushing the murderer/finally just snapped issue.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't think MG is defending Smith, I think he's pushing the murderer/finally just snapped issue.

Yeah, I keep hearing that "just snapped" reference another incident I won't get into. That's the kind of BS the anti-gun lobby uses. People "just snap" and have a firearm near at hand and tragedy results.

Let's look at the incident. You don't park your vehicle away from the house, set up recorders, and wait in the dark because you "just snapped". People who "just snap" don't have much in the way of logistics for their crime. That's a thought out ambush. I'd still be ok with it if he used reasonable force once they did break in, but he didn't stop there and he crossed the line so far you can't even see the line from where he stopped. No, "just snapped" is for defense attorneys, activists, and apologists.

 

[stephen87]

I agree with everything you said. Not everyone sees eye to eye on this though.

Maybe his original plan was to catch these criminals, shoot them, and send them to the hospital with a couple of wounds, but after he saw them suffering, something ignited inside of him that either didn't want them alive or didn't want to see the suffering. Idk, I'm not him nor am I a psychologist.

 

[darinb]

Wow,thats cold. This story has a serial killer like vibe to it.

 

[88GT]

You don't execute the helpless, even if they were initially a threat.

Eh, I don't see much moral difference between the first shot and the last shot.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I wonder if a cop executed two downed suspects because he was finally had enough with people and the courts letting the scroats back out as quick as he could arrest them if we'd see the same question asked.

You don't execute the helpless, even if they were initially a threat.

Maybe the media's got it all wrong, maybe the recordings are being misrepresented, but there's just too much between the statements, the types of injuries, the dragging the bodies, the delay in reporting it, etc. for me to give him much benefit of the doubt of not being a murderer.

I would like to approach this from a different angle. Let's explore the options the man had available under the circumstances:

He could delegate the issue to law enforcement, but given that his home had been invaded repetitively by the same individuals, better results seem improbable.

He could rely on passive measures, but, again, given that this had failed previously, better results are not likely.

He could have fired until active threatening ceased. The up side is that a defense argument would be much easier. The down side is that if they lived, it seems reasonable to surmise that as soon as they recovered, they would be back again.

He could have done exactly what he did. The two intruders will never be back again. Then again, he now has significant legal issues and would be almost as big a challenge for a PR man as Charlie Manson.

 

[remauto1187]

I'll stick the needle in his arm myself, all they gotta do is call me and I will be there...on my own dime. You all can argue/discuss "different angles" all you want. He committed murder once they were no longer a threat and executed them. If the same "incident" happened here in Indiana, "you" would be in jail for the rest of your life at the very least.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

He could have fired until active threatening ceased. The up side is that a defense argument would be much easier. The down side is that if they lived, it seems reasonable to surmise that as soon as they recovered, they would be back again.

Teenage burglars will return to the house they were shot at? Doesn't that fly in the face of the theory that guns prevent crime? They would still be charged with the burglary if they lived. Yes they will get out eventually, but following the logic that their death is to be preferred, then the police and/or court system should simply execute burglars who are apprehended to ensure they will never burglarize again.

The real upside to stop firing after the threat ceased is he would have moral and legal standing, as opposed to being a murderer who executed two people once they helpless with zero due process of law. Even in war the execution of wounded soldiers who no longer pose a threat is a war crime.

 

[Shadow8088]

true, but in war, there's not really anyone around to prove it...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

true, but in war, there's not really anyone around to prove it...

History says otherwise, right up to and including 2013 when some UK Marines got charged with murder because their squadmate's go-pro helmet cam caught one executing a seriously wounded insurgent. Regardless of what you can prove, right is right and wrong is wrong. If you are only ethical when people are watching, you aren't ethical.

 

[ryknoll3]

Just as an update to this story, this guy was convicted of both 1st and 2nd degree murder on for both intruders.

Little Falls Man Found Guilty On All Four Counts Of Murder « CBS Minnesota

ETA: Automatic life in prison without parole for Murder 1 in Minnesota.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just as an update to this story, this guy was convicted of both 1st and 2nd degree murder on for both intruders.

Little Falls Man Found Guilty On All Four Counts Of Murder « CBS Minnesota

ETA: Automatic life in prison without parole for Murder 1 in Minnesota.

How the Hell can you get 4 murder charges out of killing two people?

 

[Kutnupe14]

If he had never recorded the incident, he wouldve gotten off, scary.

 

[Fargo]

You don't actually. Those counts will merge together into the greater count at sentencing so as not to create double jeopardy. It only matters if on appeal one of the 1st degree counts fails, the 2nd degree count would then apply.

 

[cooltools]

Pretty dumb to wait to call PD, got to be more to this.

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

Just a shame that the taxpayers will be paying for this SOB's existence for the rest of his life because they dont execute criminals (like he did to to the helpless burglars...) Based on what I have read on the case and the facts involved it was the right decision... Sicko...

 

[remauto1187]

Well well....hmmmmm My offer still stands...Ill put the needle in him myself if the state changes their mind on his sentence.

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

Just finished listening to this B$#tard's statement, and it is pretty disgusting... Stone cold murderer... No wonder the Jury took only 3 hours to sentence this guy... Unbelievable...
Lets see,

1. Innocence... NOPE (who was the Aggressor... AT the time of the killing)
2. Imminence of Immediate threat of Grave injury or Death... NOPE
3. Proportionality: Response of force in proportion to the PERCEIVED Threat of Force... NOPE
4. Reasonableness: Would the reasonable and Prudent person respond similarly in a similar situation? NOPE
5. Avoidance: (only element where SYG is involved...) Did he have a reasonable avenue of Retreat? NOPE (Although MINN has a so called Stand your Ground Statute, it has not been consistently followed and there have been a number of cases where it has not been followed based on circumstance) relates to the commission of a forcible felony in one's place of abode there is no duty to retreat.

Additionally involved significant preparation on Smith's part as well as the "laying in wait"... That is a chilling, chilling initial statement to the Investigator... Cold Cold Cold...