Equip Teachers to Defend Themselves and their Students

[Coach]

Well written. Great that it was published. The steps outlined in the letter to the editor will gain traction with the common people who are concerned for thier kids safety and are not gun people if we continue to explain that this is the best option and that it can be done safely.

School board will respond to the will of the public.

 

[Shelly1582]

The negativity in the comments of the letter are baffling to me. I cannot grasp how some of these scenarios posted fit with anyone's version of common sense. I guess they probably feel the same way about my comment. Either way, your offer is very kind Mr. Relford, and a great idea! Why would anyone think someone dead set on committing murder, a crime, give a rats behind about breaking another law? The logic simply is not there.

 

[tightlines]

Props to you for the letter. Having family members in schools as both educators and students make this topic all the more relevant to me. It's great to see what you have offered for educators. Let's hope we gain some traction in our efforts. Thanks

 

[asipes]

Great letter! I do have one question though.

The law states the following:

(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
​

Do you not stop at the word "or" both times it appears above?

It would then read:

(2) A person who has been employed by:
(A) a school

​

I don't understand how this doesn't already allow any teacher (already licensed to carry) to "legally" carry.

 

[Tuesday Shooter]

Very well said.

 

[GuyRelford]

Bravo, Guy's editorial is in today's paper. I immediately submitted this letter to the editor:


As a retired police lieutenant I endorse the ideas of Mr. Guy Relford concerning the arming of volunteer teachers in Indiana schools, and I suggest taking those ideas a step further.

I am trained in handgun use and would be willing to volunteer a certain number of hours per week to discreetly patrol schools in my local school system. There are thousands like me all over Indiana, in every school system in the state, and I think I can state with confidence that volunteers would be plentiful, especially among mature, sober retirees with children and grandchildren of their own. The only cost involved would be that of a background check on volunteers.

Why not let Hoosier handgun license holders protect Hoosier school children?
_____________________________________________________

I can't say whether they'll print it, nor am I holding my breath that any Indiana school systems will avail themselves of armed volunteers, but I do want to keep the discussion going.

Great letter! Do you have a link? I haven't seen it in the paper.
Guy

 

[GuyRelford]

Great letter! I do have one question though.

The law states the following:

(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
​

Do you not stop at the word "or" both times it appears above?

It would then read:

(2) A person who has been employed by:
(A) a school

​

I don't understand how this doesn't already allow any teacher (already licensed to carry) to "legally" carry.

I think the statute is definitely subject to your interpretation, which I've also pointed out. But I would be hesitant to say that anyone employed by a school is already permitted to carry legally, because I think a prosecutor would argue that is implicit in the statute that you have to be specifically authorized to possess a gun.

Still, the words say what they say.

Guy

 

[GuyRelford]

Here it is:
My View: Indiana could safely arm its teachers | Letters to the Editor | The Indianapolis Star | IndyStar.com

Guy

 

[MZWilson]

As a teacher, gun owner, and daily carrier, I have very mixed feelings on the effectiveness of armed teachers. I teach middle school just outside of Indianapolis in a two storied, four grade building (5-8). I've thought many times what I could do if there was a shooter in the building and what I would do if there was a shooter in the building and I were armed.

Here's my concern:

My building has around 80 teachers. Of these 80, I work or communicate with about 12 everyday. Including myself, I know I'm the only one with a LTCH. One other teacher hunts, and the others range from very anti-gun to indifferent. My classroom in in the 8th grade wing of the building, and I'm the only one with a (hypothetical) firearm. For the sake of argument, let's say there are 10 armed teachers--which without discussing it with the rest of the staff, is probably an overestimation.

Let's say I hear gunshots during a class. More than likely the lockdown alarm comes on and I "secure" my students in my room. My door is locked and lights are off. I'm not sure I'd be able to hear where the shots are coming from. I'm near a stairwell and an exterior door. During "loud" days, I can hear classrooms/activities/music from anywhere on my side of the building. I'm now faced with the decision to stay with my students and protect them should someone try to come through the door or try to find the shooter in my large building.

Legally speaking, I am responsable for the students when they are in my classroom. I'm going to have a major problem leaving my class unsupervised and unprotected in this situation. My 30+ students go from probably the safest room in the building to totally vulnerable. This is the real crux of the debate, for me.

Let's assume there is only one shooter. I leave my classroom to search for him. While I'm out, the shooter breaks the glass in my door and unlocks from the inside. My room is now filled with 30 terrified students and a gunman. Maybe I find the shooter and deescalate the situation, maybe not. But what I can say for sure is there are now students without a teacher in a very dangerous situation.

I would dread having to make the decision to stay with my class or leave. That said, given the opportunity, I would carry at school. I carry everywhere else and it would make those entrusted to me safer when they're near me.

 

[Shelly1582]

As a teacher, gun owner, and daily carrier, I have very mixed feelings on the effectiveness of armed teachers. I teach middle school just outside of Indianapolis in a two storied, four grade building (5-8). I've thought many times what I could do if there was a shooter in the building and what I would do if there was a shooter in the building and I were armed.

Here's my concern:

My building has around 80 teachers. Of these 80, I work or communicate with about 12 everyday. Including myself, I know I'm the only one with a LTCH. One other teacher hunts, and the others range from very anti-gun to indifferent. My classroom in in the 8th grade wing of the building, and I'm the only one with a (hypothetical) firearm. For the sake of argument, let's say there are 10 armed teachers--which without discussing it with the rest of the staff, is probably an overestimation.

Let's say I hear gunshots during a class. More than likely the lockdown alarm comes on and I "secure" my students in my room. My door is locked and lights are off. I'm not sure I'd be able to hear where the shots are coming from. I'm near a stairwell and an exterior door. During "loud" days, I can hear classrooms/activities/music from anywhere on my side of the building. I'm now faced with the decision to stay with my students and protect them should someone try to come through the door or try to find the shooter in my large building.

Legally speaking, I am responsable for the students when they are in my classroom. I'm going to have a major problem leaving my class unsupervised and unprotected in this situation. My 30+ students go from probably the safest room in the building to totally vulnerable. This is the real crux of the debate, for me.

Let's assume there is only one shooter. I leave my classroom to search for him. While I'm out, the shooter breaks the glass in my door and unlocks from the inside. My room is now filled with 30 terrified students and a gunman. Maybe I find the shooter and deescalate the situation, maybe not. But what I can say for sure is there are now students without a teacher in a very dangerous situation.

I would dread having to make the decision to stay with my class or leave. That said, given the opportunity, I would carry at school. I carry everywhere else and it would make those entrusted to me safer when they're near me.

In my opinion, your position is to stay in your classroom and defensively protect your students. This is why in a perfect world, my opinion, each teacher would be capable of locking down their room and placing themselves in a position to defend their students from an entering threat. Going "hunting" for the active shooter alone does not sound like the optimal situation.

To clarify, "in a perfect world" there would be no active shooter in our schools. I just meant for the way things are I would prefer each teacher be able to defend their class. I realize this isn't likely to happen.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Great letter! Do you have a link? I haven't seen it in the paper.
Guy

They've not yet printed it nor can I say that they will. I shot it off to them while the ink was still drying on your editorial.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

In my opinion, your position is to stay in your classroom and defensively protect your students. This is why in a perfect world, my opinion, each teacher would be capable of locking down their room and placing themselves in a position to defend their students from an entering threat. Going "hunting" for the active shooter alone does not sound like the optimal situation.

To clarify, "in a perfect world" there would be no active shooter in our schools. I just meant for the way things are I would prefer each teacher be able to defend their class. I realize this isn't likely to happen.

Agreed...it would be a tough thing to sit there listening to shots and knowing that children might be dying, but a defensive posture in this situation is superior to an offensive one.

Your school administrators have the opportunity right now to plan for this. If they don't do it that's not your fault.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I agree with the others - do what is best for your students. If that's a defensive posture (and in the scenario, I think it would be), then so be it.

All that said, you are EXACTLY the kind of teacher that I do NOT believe should be stripped of your rights, simply due to your choice of profession. Good for you, sir.

 

[mkbar80]

I'm now faced with the decision to stay with my students and protect them should someone try to come through the door or try to find the shooter in my large building.

I'd be more worried about being ventilated by the first responders while you're moving through the building with a firearm. You better hope every member of the local pd has your 8x10 glossy on their dashboard, and hope a neighboring agency doesn't get there first.

On the surface, allowing vetted faculty members to carry sounds like a win win. We need to keep in mind the confusion inherent in these situations and that Murphy is present at all such events.

If I was an armed teacher I would use that firearm only to defend students in my immediate presence. Either while I defend the door, or move them in mass to an exit. Having a few dozen kids huddled behind me goes a long way towards making me obvious as a good guy. Floating around an active shooter scene as a singleton with a weapon is asking for trouble at best.

 

[MZWilson]

I'd be more worried about being ventilated by the first responders while you're moving through the building with a firearm. You better hope every member of the local pd has your 8x10 glossy on their dashboard, and hope a neighboring agency doesn't get there first.

Good point here. This is one of the purposes of the lockdown--as described by my administrators. It helps to figure out who is who in a stressful situation.

 

[GuyRelford]

In response to a couple PMs - my editorial was published in Sunday's paper, as disclosed up-thread:

My View: Indiana could safely arm its teachers | Letters to the Editor | The Indianapolis Star | IndyStar.com

Guy

 

[GuyRelford]

FYI, Jack Rinehart of Channel 6 (RTV6) came by my office today to interview me about the potential of arming teachers. I assume the piece will air sometime tonight on the Channel 6 News.

Guy

 

[Smokepole]

I have submitted the following editorial to the Indianapolis Star:

Ind. Code §35-47-9-1(2) already allows the possession of firearms on school property by anyone “employed or authorized” by a school to act as a security guard. There is absolutely nothing in Indiana law that would prevent a school system from authorizing teachers, staff or administrators to act in that capacity and to legally possess a gun on school property. Anyone in possession of a valid Indiana License to Carry Handgun would also be exempt from the Federal “Gun Free School Zones” Act, which has an exception for anyone licensed to carry a gun by the state in which a school is located.

Guy

Guy,

Question, to my thinking there are more than one way to interpret the highlighted part above. My initial read is that ANYONE, walking through the door that is a current, valid LTCH holder is exempt from the Federal "GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES" Act and may carry on school property. But,to this point, my impression from all that I have seen and read is that no one (excepting LEO's) may posses a firearm on school property unless it is in the car and not on one's person when out of the vehicle.

And if my read is correct, is there a part in the Indiana Code that forbids carrying on school property?

What would be the proper read here? Better yet EXACTLY what is the proper interpretation of both the Fed. and Indiana codes on civilian carry on school property. I simply don't have my weapon with me at all when going on school property just to be safe.

 

[GuyRelford]

Guy,

Question, to my thinking there are more than one way to interpret the highlighted part above. My initial read is that ANYONE, walking through the door that is a current, valid LTCH holder is exempt from the Federal "GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES" Act and may carry on school property. But,to this point, my impression from all that I have seen and read is that no one (excepting LEO's) may posses a firearm on school property unless it is in the car and not on one's person when out of the vehicle.

And if my read is correct, is there a part in the Indiana Code that forbids carrying on school property?

What would be the proper read here? Better yet EXACTLY what is the proper interpretation of both the Fed. and Indiana codes on civilian carry on school property. I simply don't have my weapon with me at all when going on school property just to be safe.

The federal "gun free school zones" statute has an exemption for anyone with a license issued by the state in which the school is located, but the Indiana statute does not. So it's a felony under Indiana law to possess a firearm on school property unless you fall into one of three exceptions: you're a LEO, you're employed or authorized by the school to possess a firearm, or you've got a LTCH and you're operating a vehicle to pick up someone or drop them off at a school.

Guy

 

[Smokepole]

FYI, Jack Rinehart of Channel 6 (RTV6) came by my office today to interview me about the potential of arming teachers. I assume the piece will air sometime tonight on the Channel 6 News.

Guy

Cool, I've got the DVR set to record.