Eotech and Aimpoint observations: with pics

[mettle]

I didn't ask at the time and did not record it in my AAR notes, other than it was an EO. But in every carbine course I've taken with the exception of the Magpul carbine course back in May, there has been at least one. Sometimes multiples.


It was Craig (bigcraig), and you'd have to ask him.



I don't own any EOs personally. None of the ones I have tried have failed in my presence except for Craig's.



No. None of mine, none of those belonging to friends, and none in carbine courses. I have heard of a few instances (like, count on one hand) in AARs from other folks.

I am asking for the sake of this thread, I'd like to know which models, or even perhaps serial # range so folks know what to avoid.

I'd like to know, b/c if an Eo showed up on this forum in the classifieds people can look at see which model it is and perhaps make a judgment call on it.

 

[shooter521]

I am asking for the sake of this thread, I'd like to know which models, or even perhaps serial # range so folks know what to avoid.

SOCOM issued a warning last year about the 553, regarding the battery contact issue:

To all concerned:

The SOPMOD Program Management Office (PMO) is issuing this notice to all potential users of the EOTech SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight, NSN 1240-01-533-0941, also known as the holographic weapon sight.

1. It was recently brought to the attention of the SOPMOD PMO that there exists the possibility that the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight made by EOTech is susceptible to failure characterized by the sight shutting off in the middle of weapon fire.

2. The failure is caused by faulty battery contacts that were incorporated by EOTech without government concurrence. (See attached image). These faulty battery contacts are susceptible to wear due to shock while the weapon is firing. As a result, the batteries may lose contact, causing the sight to shut off.

3. EOTech has qualified a new supplier of these battery contacts and the SOPMOD PMO is currently validating this new configuration through testing. By mid April 2008, this process should be complete. At that time, SOPMOD will institute a 100 percent replacement of the SU-231/PEQs that have already been fielded. Maintenance Contact Teams will travel to field units to either swap out the sights with replacements or conduct on-site field repairs. As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field replacement kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.

4. The SOPMOD PMO has ordered a halt on any further fielding of this item until sufficient testing has been performed on sights with the incorporated part upgrade. For those field units that have already received the SU-231/PEQ, the SOPMOD PMO strongly recommends not using those sights until they can be replaced or repaired.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I have had no issues with my 512.. none.

 

[bigcraig]

I have owned both Eothingys and APs, my personal choice is APs with 2moa dots.

The EO 512 I had was the latest version, it would not hold zero so badly that it had me thinking that there was something wrong with the gun. I even made a special range trip with shooter521 to hammer out what was the problem, and lo and behold it was the Eothingy. I will never own one again, period.

The APs have a better battery life, better construction and allows me to use the best optics mounts known to man, LaRue.

That being said, if Eothingys work well for you, and your type of shooting, by all means use them, but for me APs are the only quality battle worthy RDS to use on my serious ARs.

 

[mettle]

SOCOM issued a warning last year about the 553, regarding the battery contact issue:

To all concerned:

The SOPMOD Program Management Office (PMO) is issuing this notice to all potential users of the EOTech SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight, NSN 1240-01-533-0941, also known as the holographic weapon sight.

1. It was recently brought to the attention of the SOPMOD PMO that there exists the possibility that the SU-231/PEQ Reflex Sight made by EOTech is susceptible to failure characterized by the sight shutting off in the middle of weapon fire.

2. The failure is caused by faulty battery contacts that were incorporated by EOTech without government concurrence. (See attached image). These faulty battery contacts are susceptible to wear due to shock while the weapon is firing. As a result, the batteries may lose contact, causing the sight to shut off.

3. EOTech has qualified a new supplier of these battery contacts and the SOPMOD PMO is currently validating this new configuration through testing. By mid April 2008, this process should be complete. At that time, SOPMOD will institute a 100 percent replacement of the SU-231/PEQs that have already been fielded. Maintenance Contact Teams will travel to field units to either swap out the sights with replacements or conduct on-site field repairs. As an interim solution, the SOPMOD PMO is currently testing a field replaceable grommet that will mitigate the risk of failure. Pending test results, these grommets will be shipped as part of a field replacement kits to units that have been issued the SU-231/PEQ.

4. The SOPMOD PMO has ordered a halt on any further fielding of this item until sufficient testing has been performed on sights with the incorporated part upgrade. For those field units that have already received the SU-231/PEQ, the SOPMOD PMO strongly recommends not using those sights until they can be replaced or repaired.

Thanks. This is quality facts that people need to see, including me. Most people have not seen such info, and this is why I wanted to start this thread.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I have the Bushnell Holosight and love it. I have no experience with the Aimpoint and my question is, do the aimpoints allow for shooting with both eyes open as easily as the Eotech does?

 

[esrice]

do the aimpoints allow for shooting with both eyes open as easily as the Eotech does?

Absolutely, that's how they should be used.

I'm curious if some of mettle's own vision issues don't make it tougher for him to shoot both eyes open, therefore exacerbating the "tube" feeling that he reports using Aimpoints.

When I shoot both eyes open I'm looking down the carbine and completely through the tube, and only see the red dot superimposed on my target.

 

[mettle]

Absolutely, that's how they should be used.

I'm curious if some of mettle's own vision issues don't make it tougher for him to shoot both eyes open, therefore exacerbating the "tube" feeling that he reports using Aimpoints.

When I shoot both eyes open I'm looking down the carbine and completely through the tube, and only see the red dot superimposed on my target.

That is is. It takes me quite a bit longer to find the dot, and superimpose it on the target with the Aimpoint. I am quite a bit slower with it and I have to close my left eye shortly to get the picture.

With the Eotech I feel like I am looking through a window and can spot the dot a lot quicker. I think a lot of the reason is the short length (front to back windows--length) that makes the Eo --for me-- feel that way.

I am gonna pick up the newest Eo soon, someday, and a Larue QD mount. It'll be time for an addendum to this review!

 

[motoman]

good review. those are good common sense points that were made. i have to agree with you on them and chose an eotech also.

 

[MarkR]

Great review, and great discussion - I wish all product comparisons/reviews were like this - factual and experience based. Don't make it personal.

I have both, an EoTech, and an Aimpoint (CompM4s) and I like both! I use the aimpoint more, but the only issue I have with the EO is the battery life and the controls. I have accidentally left it on and ended up with a dead battery while stored in the safe. Otherwise, it works great.

What I would like to see next, is a review of Trijicon ACOGs. Does anyone have/use them? That would be a great addition to the thread. I"m considering an ACOG for an AR-10 .308.

Thanks for sharing this info - it's very helpful!

 

[HandK]

+1 great review, Thanks for posting it.

 

[alfahornet]

Great review. First time I saw EOtech I was impressed, shortly after got a 552 and love it.

 

[pftraining_in]

I started out with an EOTech 511 when I first bought my rifle. I thought the EOTech was a great sight and all the high speed low drag groups used them. That was until I started running it during carbine courses. Before the carbine courses the sight always seemed to work and I thought it was the greatest sight ever due to the HUD display, neat reticle and all the advertising hype. Every gun mag had at least two EOTech Ads. During my first carbine course on the 1st day at lunch I found the batteries dead, I thought no big deal and changed them. The next morning on TD 2 the batteries were dead again, luckily I brought two sets. That set died by lunch and I had to drive around and find a third set. They lasted until the end of TD3. I got home and put fresh batteries in.

Two days later while working I receive a break-in alarm at a gun store. I am first on scene and find an open door. I retrieve my rifle, hit the "ON" button on the great EOTech and it is dead. Bad time to change a set of batteries so entry was made in the building with iron sights and white light. Anyone who has not experienced iron sights, white lights and painted walls needs to give it a try. Needless to say I sold the sight on Ebay. I myself have seen every model of EOTech fail in some way (mount, batteries, contacts) at one time and this has occurred during training.

With the money I bought a Trijicon Tri-Power. I figured with four back up lighting systems for the reticle this would be the answer. The fiber optic did not work when it was dark, the tritium was two dim, the batteries lasted almost as long as the EOTech and chemstick was too much of a pain to use in an emergency. The other nice feature of the Tri-Power was the fiber optic that lite up when you use the battery option making an excellent target at night. The battery cap and other caps were easy to loose and caused the sight to not be entirely waterproof. Sight failure #2!

So I choose to buy an ML3 Aimpoint. Minimal advertising and only has a boring red dot, but almost everyone who either lives by the long gun or makes a living teaching the long gun recommends it. I bought the sight two years ago, turned it on and have never turned it off. I changed the battery this year on January 1 only because I wanted to make sure I had a new battery in the sight. Every time I take my rifle out, the sight is still on. I have shot the rifle in two different carbine classes and carry it everyday with out any issues. The sight requires a separate mount, however as long as you purchase a LaRue mount you will have a combo that last longer than the life of your rifle. Some claim they will not use an Aimpoint because you can see the diode from the front of the sight, unless you have the sight turned up all the way and you are letting someone stare at the rifle you have pointed at them, I do not see this as a problem. The ML series and C3 series are truly waterproof. I wish I could find the picture, but a state trooper had his rifle and Aimpoint ran over by a semi on the interstate, the rifle was toast, but the sight still works to this day. I now own both a ML3 and a C3 with no problems to report.

Aimpoint Pros:

• 1 year of battery life in the ML2
• 5 years of battery life in the ML3 and C3
• 8 years of battery life in the M4
• (all figured on a 24 hr a day run time)
• Only one way to turn it on and off
• Waterproof to either 15 feet or 50 feet depending on the model
• Low cost to maintain, even if you buy your 1/3 N battery at Radio Shack for $25, that comes up to $5 a year to maintain. If you choose the M4 model your cost is around .31 cents a year.

Aimpoint Cons

• You have to buy a mount

EOTech Pros

• "Cool" Reticle
• No front signature

EOTech Cons

• Battery life equal 46 days of continues use, which would require the sight to be turned on 3 times a days and 15 times in that 46 days. You have to remember that to hit the 8 hour button each time.
• Cost to Maintain: $37 a year in batteries if you get a good deal on lithium AAs
• Weak mount
• Water Resistant (due to battery box design)
• Weak battery springs
• NV button on some models is easily activated caused the sight to be useless
• One button activates the sight for 4 hrs the other activates it for 8 hrs, you must remember which one you used
• Sight has an automatic shutoff that is not consistent
• If you wear gloves the sight is hard to turn on

 

[Marc]

i have the EOtech 511 A65/D1 (the little one) and i love it. where i put the dot is where it hits. i havent had the opportunity to use the aimpoint but when im down on post at atterburry thats all you see mounted on the rifles but idk if its cause they give a good military discount or what, but what i do know is they both are highly supported by the military over many other red dots. just my

EOTech Cons

• Battery life equal 46 days of continues use, which would require the sight to be turned on 3 times a days and 15 times in that 46 days. You have to remember that to hit the 8 hour button each time.
  
• Cost to Maintain: $37 a year in batteries if you get a good deal on lithium AAs
• Weak mount
  [*]Water Resistant
• Weak battery springs
• NV button on some models is easily activated caused the sight to be useless
• One button activates the sight for 4 hrs the other activates it for 8 hrs, you must remember which one you used
• Sight has an automatic shutoff that is not consistent
• If you wear gloves the sight is hard to turn on

isnt water resistant a pro for the eotech?

 

[ATM]

isnt water resistant a pro for the eotech?

Not when compared to waterproof for the Aimpoint.

 

[Marc]

ah

not trying to start anything. i have never used the aimpoint system (though looking into getting one the compml3)

did some more looking into it. both eotech and aimpoint (depending on what model) have different depths they can go to. my eotech (511.a65/1) is water proof up to 10ft and some are water proof up to 66ft. aimpoints are the same way. some are water proof for 3 ft and others for 150ft just depends on how much you want to spend and how deep you plan on swimming, if you plan on getting wet




just thought i would look into it more to see what they both have to offer.

 

[ATM]

Love all the info and comparison experiences in this thread. I've wanted one or the other for quite a while.

I need to get off the fence and just do it.

Hmmm... which one...

 

[pftraining_in]

did some more looking into it. both eotech and aimpoint (depending on what model) have different depths they can go to. my eotech (511.a65/1) is water proof up to 10ft and some are water proof up to 66ft. aimpoints are the same way. some are water proof for 3 ft and others for 150ft just depends on how much you want to spend and how deep you plan on swimming, if you plan on getting wet just thought i would look into it more to see what they both have to offer.

Due to the battery box design of the EOTech they are not waterproof. This occurs due to the seal and the way the cam pushes the battery box against the sight. The sight is waterproof but the battery box is not.

EOTech will give a discount, however Aimpoint will not. If you shop around you can find deals on the Aimpoints. Even Pat Rogers pays full price for Aimpoints. If you are interested in the ML3 look hard at the C3 if you do not plan on swimming with it. You will save around a $100 and still have all the same features.

 

[Marc]

sales gimmick for eotech i suppose but on my eotech there is a seal on the battery box but i guess thats what makes it water resistant not water proof.

 

[mettle]

I am still gonna pick up the latest model from EO. I know several guys who run ARs a L O T that never have any issues with them.