ENGINEERS!

[CountryBoy19]

Can I poo-poo on your Engineer thread?
If you're an Engineer and you've never worked in the field, ask someone with field experience if its feasible.
That right there is what makes most people in the field hate an Engineer.... "What do you mean you can't do that, it works on paper" or "The book says that's how you do it"
Okay, that's all the poo-poo I'm going to throw on your thread.

FWIW, MOST engineers wish to interact with the guy in the field and get his/her opinion. But either to demanding upper management, physical separation of engineers & field guys, or just plain ignorance they don't get the chance to ask. But given that opportunity they would do so in a heart-beat.

I am about 1 mile from the location of all our machinists. To interact with them I must get in my own private vehicle, drive down the road on my own gas I paid for, and brave harsh weather to go ask the guy in the field his advice on which way is better etc. I do that on a daily basis and I know for certain that many engineers don't have that "luxury" (it's not really a luxury, it sucks to have to do that)... just keep in mind that not that many engineers turn out bad designs on purpose, or because they wanted to be lazy when designing it, it's because of the constraints placed upon them that they can't be more thorough...

 

[chipbennett]

FWIW, MOST engineers wish to interact with the guy in the field and get his/her opinion.

Yep; this was a lesson I learned as a co-op. I developed the HMI and DCS for a utility plant in Indy (can't remember now where exactly it was), and as part of the project, brought in the operators for FAT and training. I trained them on the system I developed, and they found all the ways it could break, that I hadn't thought of. I learned that we always want the operators to provide feedback on the crap we design - not because operators are good at finding novel ways to break stuff, but because they know the systems inside and out, and can ferret out where we've made incorrect assumptions or restraints on the design.

Now, I'm in Validation, and operator feedback is every bit as important. Nobody knows intended use like the people running the process day in and day out.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Can I poo-poo on your Engineer thread?
If you're an Engineer and you've never worked in the field, ask someone with field experience if its feasible.
That right there is what makes most people in the field hate an Engineer.... "What do you mean you can't do that, it works on paper" or "The book says that's how you do it"
Okay, that's all the poo-poo I'm going to throw on your thread.

Very common feedback, and in my experience, some of the best engineers are the ones that have had field experience, either working for the company in other roles, or from personal hobbies and experience outside of work.

I kid you not that I've had some guys that didn't understand the "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey" mantra during a job interview (and I wasn't asking a trick question about reverse threads on rotating parts either!!). Needless to say they are likely not recommended for positions that will require working directly with folks that make our products.

At the same time, I've had guys that are wizzes at fabricating and designing stuff on the fly in their garage, but couldn't design their way out of a wet paper sack if they had to do it sitting at a desk vs. on the shop floor.

In the end it takes all types, and the ones that typically exceed are the ones that are able to operate effectively in both the virtual space of design, and practical space of hands on.



P.S. Engineers also like to complain about the "knuckle dragging, mouth breathing" technicians that manage to screw up our beautiful works of art!

 

[rhino]

P.S. Engineers also like to complain about the "knuckle dragging, mouth breathing" technicians that manage to screw up our beautiful works of art!

That does happen, but it's less frequent than the other way around. For some reason it's more acceptable to criticize engineers for not knowing everything that all other jobs know, but it's not nearly as acceptable for engineers to criticize others for not knowing everything that engineers know.

 

[opus1776]

Anyone else have a collection of 0.3mm mechanical pencils?

I'm rockin' the pentel p203 here!!





======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.

 

[JettaKnight]

If you're an Engineer and you've never worked in the field, ask someone with field experience if its feasible.

Sometimes there isn't really a "field". Think of satellites or software in cloud computing.

I get the gist; we call them "stakeholders". When I was designing class 8 long haulers, I tried to talk to as many truckers as I could and spent countless hours getting immersed in operation and maintenance.

Of course, you can't make every stakeholder 100% happy; that's where trade studies and validation come in. And then... are you asleep again?

 

[rhino]

I'm rockin' the pentel p203 here!!

That's bada**!

I went through school primarily with a Pentel PMG in 0.3mm and a Scripto 0.3mm. When I got to grad school, I added a Berol and Koh-I-Noor. Now . . . I have more. I wish I had started to collect the when they were more common. You can still find an interesting assortment by shopping the sources of Japanese writing implements, but it's not like it was in the 1980s and early 1990s.

I blame CAD for killing the market for high end mechanical pencils and other precision drawing tools!

And don't get me started on the crap they sell as compasses now! Try to find a new drawing tool set with instruments made from brass/bronze with nickel plating that will actually hold (and repeat) their adjustments. TRY IT.

 

[ghitch75]

i have showed MANY engineers that paper and the really world are not the same.......oh and one other thing you should have 10 years experience in your field before you can get a engineering degree.....and yes you should talk to "your guy in the field" everyday!!!!!!......you'll learn a lot!!!!

flame suit is on.......

 

[jblomenberg16]

i have showed MANY engineers that paper and the really world are not the same.......oh and one other thing you should have 10 years experience in your field before you can get a engineering degree.....and yes you should talk to "your guy in the field" everyday!!!!!!......you'll learn a lot!!!!

flame suit is on.......

In some fields, that requirement isn't far from reality. A lot of Civil engineer's that sit for the PE (Professional Engineer) exam have to have a significant amount of time as "interns" working for other more experienced PE's, including field work.

 

[Hoosier8]

I used to be called an engineer in a large company until they decided they could not call you that without a degree.

 

[the only Qualk]

In some fields, that requirement isn't far from reality. A lot of Civil engineer's that sit for the PE (Professional Engineer) exam have to have a significant amount of time as "interns" working for other more experienced PE's, including field work.

I believe for the mechanical PE exam it is around 5 years work experience and having passed the test to be called engineer in training which is like a 4 hour test. Not looking forward to taking that should I decide to. lol

 

[JettaKnight]

In some fields, that requirement isn't far from reality. A lot of Civil engineer's that sit for the PE (Professional Engineer) exam have to have a significant amount of time as "interns" working for other more experienced PE's, including field work.

Yet the guys and girls who write the code that controls the throttle in your minivan can be fresh out of college!

 

[cce1302]

1302 Combat Engineer Officer, USMC

Marine Corps Engineer School, Courthouse Bay, Camp Lejeune, NC, 2003

Combat Assault Battalion

2d CEB

6th ESB

 

[orangeITguy]

ENGINEERS!

Electrical Engineer
Purdue 2006
CCIE
2011

 

[Limpy88]

Engineers!!?!?!

The mortal enemy of technicians...you guys are the reason my hands are 90% scar tissue.

I believe all (mechanical) engineers should have to spend time on the service line before they are set free to cram components into designs wherever AutoCad claims they'll fit.

Well, at least I have you all in one place...time to cluster ban everyone!

Thats why I will be registering for class over the weekend.

Becuase to rework the cutter holders, I should not have to remove the belts, and the "to damn heavy" gearbox to get to one bolt for access.

And dealing with an allen headed bolt with no head clearance for the allen wrench, when a regular bolt would have worked just fine and been serviceable is annoying.

That does happen, but it's less frequent than the other way around. For some reason it's more acceptable to criticize engineers for not knowing everything that all other jobs know, but it's not nearly as acceptable for engineers to criticize others for not knowing everything that engineers know.

Becuase life isnt fair and we techs dont get to sit down all day.



Hopefully start classes for the spring semester. At 30 I will be taking my first college courses. Going to try for a ME. See how long it takes working full time and trying to have a life.

 

[rhino]

I believe for the mechanical PE exam it is around 5 years work experience and having passed the test to be called engineer in training which is like a 4 hour test. Not looking forward to taking that should I decide to. lol

The Fundamentals of Engineering exam (for your Engineer in Training certification) wasn't too bad back in 1987 and I think you only needed 70% to pass (hard to remember that far back). The specialty subtests were bit more challenging. I took a crate plus backpack full of books and notes with me, but I didn't use any of it much.

Actually, the hardest part for me with the engineering economics questions. I suspect most of the points I lost were among those.

I don't know if it's still true, but back in 1989-91, federal employees with hard science degrees could get classified as engineers by passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. The motivation was a higher pay scale, often for the exact same position. Some of the geologists complained daily that they got paid less than the engineers. A colleague of mine who had a BS in physics just took the exam and passed it instead of whining. It's unlikely those particular geologists would have met with similar success, which is probably why they complained instead of doing something about it.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The Fundamentals of Engineering exam (for your Engineer in Training certification) wasn't too bad back in 1987 and I think you only needed 70% to pass (hard to remember that far back). The specialty subtests were bit more challenging. I took a crate plus backpack full of books and notes with me, but I didn't use any of it much.

I don't believe it is open book anymore (I assume it was when you took it?)... as a matter of fact, it is like the SAT's etc, very strict rules, no cell-phones in the room at all, cannot leave the room except during designated bathroom breaks and you cannot go anywhere except the bathroom... I remember that because the guy that sat beside me snuck out the back door for a quick smoke, when he came back (er tried to come back in) in his test was shredded and the proctor told him he could not re-enter the room, he could pick up his belongings after the test was over.

Also, FWIW, when I was at Rose there was an alumni that would reimburse every person the took and completed (didn't necessarily have to pass) the FE exam $100 of their exam fee (total fee was like $130 at the time). He arranged it with the proctors (who were Rose professors) so you would get it in cash when you turn in the last portion of your exam. So if you show up and stay until the end, turning in all portions, you get $100 cash, and you total out of pocket expense was only $30 to take the FE exam...

I don't know if it's still true, but back in 1989-91, federal employees with hard science degrees could get classified as engineers by passing the Fundamentals of Engineering exam. The motivation was a higher pay scale, often for the exact same position.

There are a LOT of different "federal employee" positions and pay-scales but I don't think this is necessarily true but it's hard to say for sure...

 

[JettaKnight]

There is WAY too many Rose grads in this thread.



Kind of explains some behaviors in other threads...

 

[rhino]

I don't believe it is open book anymore (I assume it was when you took it?)... as a matter of fact, it is like the SAT's etc, very strict rules, no cell-phones in the room at all, cannot leave the room except during designated bathroom breaks and you cannot go anywhere except the bathroom... I remember that because the guy that sat beside me snuck out the back door for a quick smoke, when he came back (er tried to come back in) in his test was shredded and the proctor told him he could not re-enter the room, he could pick up his belongings after the test was over.

Also, FWIW, when I was at Rose there was an alumni that would reimburse every person the took and completed (didn't necessarily have to pass) the FE exam $100 of their exam fee (total fee was like $130 at the time). He arranged it with the proctors (who were Rose professors) so you would get it in cash when you turn in the last portion of your exam. So if you show up and stay until the end, turning in all portions, you get $100 cash, and you total out of pocket expense was only $30 to take the FE exam...


There are a LOT of different "federal employee" positions and pay-scales but I don't think this is necessarily true but it's hard to say for sure...

No one reimbursed me!! D'OH! Hah! I'm probably older than the guy who reimbursed you.

Cell phones didn't exist when I took the exam! Those brick-like phones arrived after that! There were certainly none with cameras or any kind of non-voice technology!

 

[CathyInBlue]

So, I, with my Masters education, could just sit an exam to become an actual "Engineer"? How much does it cost and when are they scheduled?

And what kind of engineer is an "FE"?

EE = Electrical Engineer
ME = Mechanical Engineer
CE = Chemical, Civil, or Computer Engineer (depending on context)
FE = ???

Fundamentals of Engineering Examination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fundamentals of Engineering?