Elkhart teens charged with Felony Murder after home invasion

[Joniki]

Well the answer to this debate lies in the question, "Was it a foreseeable consequence of breaking into someone's home to be shot or killed?" That is where the debate stems from. Some say YES and some say NO. I do not pretend to know the answer but I also won't shed a tear about these kids in prison. I am TIRED of kids breaking into houses for the hell of it. The house is a person's castle. The place where ALL should feel safe and secure. Going to jail for a long time for violating that sanctity is ok by me.

I totally agree with you. I just can't understand the up charging.

The homeowner should spend more time at the range.

 

[Indy317]

So riddle me this.....They went into this with intent, someone dies from that intent. They get short sentences and are back out roaming the streets with more....wait for it....intent.
These kids are not going to be saved in the penal system. They will be hardened when they get out. What if it is your house they target next.
Have you not been watching lately. Most all of these invasions/murders/robbery's are repeat offenders. 13 years old, invade a house, lock down for a very long time. The mindset is in place. Our system is not designed to save anyone.

Personally I want them locked down for eternity but that will not happen. Yes, they are responsible for putting themselves in that position....they wrote the check, time to cash it.

I think this is why we really need stronger sentencing laws for the more serious felonies. This case proves that lengthy sentences obviously can and will work. There is a reason these people are screaming at the top of their lungs. It is one thing to give slaps on the wrist to kids who shoplift video games or things of that nature, but when the greed gets to a point where people are breaking into another person's home, using a firearm during a crime, things of that nature should be dealt with severely. What isn't being told is exactly how much time these guys will do. Layman got a 55 year sentence, but sure enough, he is eligible for good time. The DOC already has his release date as 2040, so basically he serves only half of his sentence, 26 years. If he takes various classes, it is even less. So ultimately what they are complaining about is that these guys got 20-25 year sentences. They want to use the larger number, because it just sounds better.

Of course they all agree they should do something, but of course if you ask them, I'm sure they think they should only get a year, maybe two. That is the problem. For violating someone's sanctuary, a person should do at least a good seven to ten years. If they do it armed or have priors, then I say 15-20 years and they should serve the entire time.

 

[Denny347]

10-15 years for burglary and maybe we will see a large decline. Most criminals are not stupid about what they can get away with and the consequences, they are just stupid in other aspects of their life.

 

[cobber]

I totally agree with you. I just can't understand the up charging.

The homeowner should spend more time at the range.

Am I hearing you say that you don't like the felony murder rule, but you would be okay with the homeowner taking out more/all of the perps?

It's not upcharging. It's a quaint legal concept from the days where we actually held people responsible for the consequences of their actions. But for the actions of the Gang of Five, some citizen would not have had to discharge their firearm, and five numb-nuts could be planning out their lives on the government teat.

As it is, four of them still get to suckle. Just not the teat they had aspired to.

 

[level0]

So riddle me this.....They went into this with intent, someone dies from that intent. They get short sentences and are back out roaming the streets with more....wait for it....intent.
These kids are not going to be saved in the penal system. They will be hardened when they get out. What if it is your house they target next.
Have you not been watching lately. Most all of these invasions/murders/robbery's are repeat offenders. 13 years old, invade a house, lock down for a very long time. The mindset is in place. Our system is not designed to save anyone.

Personally I want them locked down for eternity but that will not happen. Yes, they are responsible for putting themselves in that position....they wrote the check, time to cash it.

Don't get me wrong, I want them locked away too. I'm a firm believer that current prison sentences are ended way too prematurely. I just can't agree to charging anyone with something they didn't do. These rat b@st@rds are right scumbags but they did not murder anyone. I'm sure there are plenty of burglars who aren't murderers, and these survivors are not murderers either.

If I was king, we'd be hanging murderers, rapists, and kidnappers at high noon at the town square on pay-per-view after a speedy trial. As far as I'm concerned, burglars can spend their full time (no such thing as time off for good behavior) breaking big rocks into small rocks.

 

[MikeDVB]

I guess here I part ways with most in this thread. None of those four surviving scumbags murdered anyone. Homeowner had a good shoot, he did not murder anyone. One scumbag criminal is dead thanks to the righteous actions of the home owner, which I 100% fully support. I can't support those four b@st@ards being charged with felony murder as none of them murdered anyone. I understand prosecutors are within their option to level this charge because there is legislation that supports it, I just don't agree with it. In my view they may as well be charged also with stealing the space shuttle, which they also did not do.

At the end of the day they chose to perform a felony and in the process of that felony somebody died. The law does not say it has to be one of their victims but only that somebody dies during the commission of the crime.

If you disagree with the felony murder law - well - write your legislator and tell them.

I don't sympathize for them for a moment because while they lost 50 years of their lives [probably 25 if they behave in prison] the person that died as a result of their actions LOST THEIR WHOLE LIFE. I do understand that the one that died did make the decision as well to perpetrate the crime but, again, the law is very clear on this.

 

[Hornett]

Let's just suppose as a hypothetical that the four kids broke into the home and ONE of them stabbed the homeowner to death.
Do they all get charged with murder?
I think they do and, I hope everyone will agree, rightly so.
Because, if the other 3 had not agreed to go with the actual stabber, then he would not have had the opportunity to do any killing.
The law applies the same principle to felony burglary when someone gets killed and I don't think it's a stretch.
If the other 3 had not agreed to go and commit this crime, then the 4th would not have been shot.

What if the 4th guy only got wounded?
Say he got his knee broken and will never walk correctly again.
Who pays the doctor bill for that.
I really really hope that the other 3 would be responsible for his recovery fees and not the homeowner.

 

[Hornett]

Since we are on the subject:
Jail is not really as much of a deterrent as it should be.
3 meals a day, cable TV, an awesome weight room...
I am not saying anyone should be abused, but prison should be, at least, more difficult than a 9 to 5 job and it's not.

 

[actaeon277]

Since we are on the subject:
Jail is not really as much of a deterrent as it should be.
3 meals a day, cable TV, an awesome weight room...
I am not saying anyone should be abused, but prison should be, at least, more difficult than a 9 to 5 job and it's not.

You forgot the brokeback mountain love.
That's what keeps me from going.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I've always thought that many people make the mistake in thinking that, after it's all said and done, if you still don't feel good about it, then justice must not have been properly done.

Sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes circumstances happen where a person commits a crime that he most likely would never commit in the future. I'm sure that there are many, many good people in prison right now who would lead good, and productive lives if they could somehow get out.

But, just because it seems to sometimes suck, it doesn't mean that justice wasn't done. In fact, if it didn't, that would mean that it most likely isn't working.

 

[level0]

At the end of the day they chose to perform a felony and in the process of that felony somebody died.

Correct. Agreed.

The law does not say it has to be one of their victims but only that somebody dies during the commission of the crime.

Agreed. This has no bearing on my position.

If you disagree with the felony murder law - well - write your legislator and tell them.

Agreed. Done and done.

I don't sympathize for them for a moment because while they lost 50 years of their lives [probably 25 if they behave in prison] the person that died as a result of their actions LOST THEIR WHOLE LIFE. I do understand that the one that died did make the decision as well to perpetrate the crime but, again, the law is very clear on this.

Agreed. This has no bearing on my position.

You and I are pretty much aligned on most of the details, I just disagree that any of these hoods committed murder. There is a bad law in place that says they did, but the factual actions of the crooks says otherwise. They didn't murder anyone. There was no murder by anyone involved in this event.

 

[kiddchaos]

Maybe the prison will have a cost-effective windfarm.

 

[actaeon277]

Correct. Agreed.


Agreed. This has no bearing on my position.


Agreed. Done and done.


Agreed. This has no bearing on my position.

You and I are pretty much aligned on most of the details, I just disagree that any of these hoods committed murder. There is a bad law in place that says they did, but the factual actions of the crooks says otherwise. They didn't murder anyone. There was no murder by anyone involved in this event.

Put battery acid in a baby bottle, put it near a toddler, then tell eveyone you didn't do it.
Yes, you did.

 

[looney2ns]

Since we are on the subject:
Jail is not really as much of a deterrent as it should be.
3 meals a day, cable TV, an awesome weight room...
I am not saying anyone should be abused, but prison should be, at least, more difficult than a 9 to 5 job and it's not.

So I recently watched a Documentary on the Russians version of prisons.
Highlights:
1-Heated but barely.
2-The rare times they leave their cell, they are shackled and held in such a manner that they are bent over and looking at the floor the entire time. Hard to plan an escape or other problems, if you've never seen anything but the floor outside your cell.
3-18th Century construction at its finest. No need for pesky remodeling.
4-You get out of line, you pay dearly.
5-The ones interviewed, really really never wanted to come back.

We could learn a thing or two on running a prison.

 

[youngda9]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Let this serve as a strong deterrent to all current and future scumbags.

 

[youngda9]

Well the answer to this debate lies in the question, "Was it a foreseeable consequence of breaking into someone's home to be shot or killed?" That is where the debate stems from. Some say YES and some say NO. I do not pretend to know the answer but I also won't shed a tear about these kids in prison.

I read stories in the news about intruders getting shot...it's common knowledge, therefore very foreseeable. duh.

 

[churchmouse]

So I recently watched a Documentary on the Russians version of prisons.
Highlights:
1-Heated but barely.
2-The rare times they leave their cell, they are shackled and held in such a manner that they are bent over and looking at the floor the entire time. Hard to plan an escape or other problems, if you've never seen anything but the floor outside your cell.
3-18th Century construction at its finest. No need for pesky remodeling.
4-You get out of line, you pay dearly.
5-The ones interviewed, really really never wanted to come back.

We could learn a thing or two on running a prison.

Put retired Marine DI's in charge. No woman on the board.

 

[2A_Tom]

I guess here I part ways with most in this thread. None of those four surviving scumbags murdered anyone. Homeowner had a good shoot, he did not murder anyone. One scumbag criminal is dead thanks to the righteous actions of the home owner, which I 100% fully support. I can't support those four b@st@ards being charged with felony murder as none of them murdered anyone. I understand prosecutors are within their option to level this charge because there is legislation that supports it, I just don't agree with it. In my view they may as well be charged also with stealing the space shuttle, which they also did not do.

No, it doesn't make sense. Neither does charging three kids who broke into a house with murder when NONE of them did the shooting.

The homeowner had a clean shoot.

The scumbag is dead. Great!

It seems to me that it was mentioned that at the first confrontation with the homeowner, they didn't leave but, one of them retrieved a knife from the kitchen.

I wonder what would have happened next had the homeowner not been armed.

You have an opinion, that's fine but, my opinion is that yours are not very well thought out.

 

[level0]

It seems to me that it was mentioned that at the first confrontation with the homeowner, they didn't leave but, one of them retrieved a knife from the kitchen.

I wonder what would have happened next had the homeowner not been armed.

You have an opinion, that's fine but, my opinion is that yours are not very well thought out.

Not a single post here is questioning the shoot. The shoot was good and righteous, and more power to the homeowner. I wish he would have gotten all of them. Speaking for Joniki without his (?) permission, I'll say he wishes the same.

I don't know what you read, but you need to read it again. No one is questioning the shoot.

You have an opinion, that's fine - but, my opinion is that your reading comprehension skills are not very well developed.

 

[2A_Tom]

Did I question the homeowners action, or the perpetrators intentions?

Reading comprehension?