Crystalship1
Master
And that's the real point here for everyone who thinks that Scutter's beating a dead horse or whatever. The man was following POSTED STORE POLICY!!! I'm interested to see what (if any) response you get from corporate.
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Ejected from Cabela's for open-carrying
- Thread starter Scutter01
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And that's the real point here for everyone who thinks that Scutter's beating a dead horse or whatever. The man was following POSTED STORE POLICY!!! I'm interested to see what (if any) response you get from corporate.
Just what Indiana gun owners need....an angry, sleep deprived openly armed individual to purposely cause a confrontation with them. They've already made it clear that they don't want you there. Take your business elsewhere. Is it really that hard to grasp? God, the social ineptness of some of you is breathtaking! You insist on carrying a gun openly to a place where it obviously makes people uncomfortable, and when you are asked to leave, you get mad and plan to go back and take more armed people with you to cause a confrontation.
Do any of you understand what private property is? It doesn't matter what corporate policy is, the people directly in charge of the store are allowed to make decisions on something like this as they see fit. You're not going to get anyone "fired" by complaining to corporate....the reality of the situation is that corporate is going to get tired of dealing with the hassle and just post a "no open carry" sign. I'm SURE that's what their lawyers will tell them to do, without a doubt. Liability is a funny thing when you are running a business, and you are trying to make a profit. It only takes one idiot to do something stupid.
Then the TINY minority of LTCH holders who just have to open carry everywhere they go will have to shop somewhere else, since being repeatedly ejected out of the store is not enough of a hint. The vast majority of people with LTCH carry concealed and (thank God) are socially conscious enough to respect the wishes of others in certain situations.
I don't go where I'm not welcome. (Except maybe on the internet, in this thread, since the "collective" has decided that anyone with a differing opinion on the appropriateness of open carry is a "troll.") I would feel welcome anywhere, and I've never been thrown out of ANY business for carrying a handgun....maybe because I don't feel the need to display the handgun. Honestly, I'll never understand this open carry fetish. While afield or in the boondocks....fine, I get that. It's convenient and expected. In a crowded urban store, against the wishes of the employees and drawing stares of people who are unaccustomed to it? Not me. I can see past the nose on my face.
Yeah, I know. I'm arrogant, I'm a troll, I'll be on ignore, blah blah blah. Flame away, Borg collective.This board would be an awfully boring place if it was filled with people patting each other on the butt for standing up to the 20 year old clerk at Cabela's. God forbid you have to cover your pistol for 15 minutes.
My God, there is intelligent life on this planet after all....
Well spoken, Sir! And you are right, it's hard to not like someone in a tropical shirt, even if they are armed. Just look at Magnum P.I.!
But if you are in my store with a gun, how do I know you are not a kook? With my psychic powers? All I know is you are not a benefit to me...and could possibly be a liability. No store is going to have a desire or expectation for their customers to be their protectors in event of robbery. Quite the opposite.
To be honest, when I see someone open carrying, which is almost never, the first thing I think of is not "gee, I am glad he's out there protecting our gun rights", I think, is he a militia kook or something? Is he an attention-seeking kook? First and foremost, I consider them a threat and am mindful of them.
Say you're having dinner with the wife and kids at Denny's. Tonight you happen to be unarmed. In strolls ten Hell's Angels open carrying, and are seated in close proximity. They have the right to belong in a motorcycle club, as long as they are law abiding, right? They have the right to open carry if they have a permit, right?
But I'm guessing you and your family won't be enjoying dinner as much from that point on, and won't be staying for dessert.
OK, lets imagine for the sake of argument that this was about OC in the store.
First you state that somebody that walks in with a visible gun might be a threat. I would counter that the person most likly to be a threat is the one who has a concealed weapon. Most criminals don't walk around with their guns exposed. The larger threat is the one you don't know about.
On a related note, just because a person is CC'ing doesn't mean that they won't be an idiot & "unholster it to show it to someone" or "go Charles Bronson and start shooting". Those things can happen regardless of mode of carry. If that's true then they should just ban guns on their property & be done with it. They haven't so that isn't a valid argument.
You state that they don't know if the person has a LTCH. Why don't they just ask them? If they get upset & don't want to tell/show them, that's their problem & they now are justified in asking them, politely (after all they have A GUN), to leave. As a store owner/manager/employee I think they have a right & an obligation to ensure that somebody isn't breaking the law on their property.
Which brings up the next issue. If the person (or you) was so concerned that they are a potential threat then why would they even confront them in the first place? If that's what they really thought then why didn't they call the police?
They weren't 'scared', they were offended by the sight of it. They were offended by the sight of someone actually legally using a product that they sell in their stores & make money selling. Would that happen in any other industry? I seriously doubt it.
I agree that its their property & can ask you to leave for any reason, but if they don't want you in their stores with a legally carried gun (OC or CC) then say so before hand & IMO they should stop selling them.
Scutter ( I assume) wasn't causing "a scene". There was no "judgement call". He was just peacefully shopping & just happened to be OC'ing in accordance with posted store & corporate policy & was treated like crap for doing so.
If other customers are scared by the sight of a gun then they might want to think twice about visiting a store that sells them & has a posted policy allowing them to be carried, visibly or otherwise.
Now in your defense you have to ignore the 'haters' here who call everybody that voices an opinion contrary to the 'groupthink' a troll. There aren't many that do it but the ones that do are very vocal about it & are immature & seem to be easily intellectually threatened. I hope you don't let them drive you away from a generally informative forum.
Last edited:
Crystalship1
Master
You make good points. It is true, the crook would likely have the weapon hidden until he makes his move. A store manager cannot act on what he is not aware of. But a gun in plain sight? Now he has to make a judgment call, whether he wants to take a chance on this person or not. If he doesn't know you personally, I'm guessing he'll take the safe option and ask you to leave.
This reminds me of a funny open carry story: flashback to the mid 1980's; Miami Vice was at the height of it's popularity. Everyone was dressing like Don Johnson and packing stainless 9mm's. The day I turned 17, I applied for my LTCH, and got it a few weeks later. My dad bought me a Colt Government in stainless and I was off to the races.
One shiny summer day, me and my best friend were cruising in my decidedly swanky TR7 convertible, doing what we did on most summer days, cruising around looking for babes. We both had shoulder rigs under our jeans jackets. For whatever reason, that day we decided to go Miami Vice and took the jackets off as we did a loop around the strip, figuring we would look cool doing it, being 17 and all. In very short order, the cops predictably pulled us over.
"What the hell are you idiots doing?" says the patrolman. "We have permits for these." we reply. "Yes, but you look like a couple of jackasses. Cover those things up." and then he let us go.
We kinda sat there for a moment. "Yeah, we do look like jackasses."
That's the last time I open carried
Ok in my last post in reply to you I was going to mention something about your stating that you are as "pro-gun as it gets" but I didn't feel as it was appropriate. Now reading the above I think I need to question that statement. Don't get me wrong I'm not a member of the "if you don't agree with my entire political ideology you must be a gun-grabber" crowd, but for you to say you are as pro-gun as it gets is stretching it just a bit.
Are you a "militia kook" because you own a gun? If not then why do you assume that others are? Even if they are, so what? As long as they aren't doing anything illegal they can be a "militia kook" all they want. Who cares if they like attention. Is that a crime? There are non-gun attention seekers aren't there? Are they a threat also?
Why would you consider them an instant threat? Just because they OC? Do you consider every cop you see OC'ing as a threat?
I can sort of understand if a person came into a restaurant (or some other location that is not typically used for shooting related activities) extrordinarily heavily armed that there might be a cause for concern. I mean look at the mass shottings that have happened recently. Anybody who says otherwise is not being honest. But to feel that way just because you see a person peacefully & legally carrying an exposed weapon is a little paranoid. Sure take note, use common sense but don't freak out about it until they give you a valid reason.
Fortunately or Unfortunately (depending on your views), in our state those Hell's Angels can in fact do both lf those things you say.
They are obviously law-abiding if they can pass the background check to get a permit & a gun if they've bought it legally. Are they not supposed to be accorded the same rights as you because they choose to wear a certain type of clothing & associate with a certain group of people. I think those things are protected by our Constitution.
You don't have a right to not be scared. You don't have a right to 'feel' safe. You have right to 'be' safe. If you want to be scared, go ahead. No one can stop you. You want to leave when the big scary bikers walk in, go ahead. That's the price we pay to live in a free society.
This reminds me of a funny open carry story: flashback to the mid 1980's; Miami Vice was at the height of it's popularity. Everyone was dressing like Don Johnson and packing stainless 9mm's. The day I turned 17, I applied for my LTCH, and got it a few weeks later. My dad bought me a Colt Government in stainless and I was off to the races.
One shiny summer day, me and my best friend were cruising in my decidedly swanky TR7 convertible, doing what we did on most summer days, cruising around looking for babes. We both had shoulder rigs under our jeans jackets. For whatever reason, that day we decided to go Miami Vice and took the jackets off as we did a loop around the strip, figuring we would look cool doing it, being 17 and all. In very short order, the cops predictably pulled us over.
"What the hell are you idiots doing?" says the patrolman. "We have permits for these." we reply. "Yes, but you look like a couple of jackasses. Cover those things up." and then he let us go.
We kinda sat there for a moment. "Yeah, we do look like jackasses."
That's the last time I open carried
How does any of the above relate to the issue of OC'ing in a store that has as it's posted policy that carrying a gun in accordance with state law is permissible then subsequently ejecting a paying peaceful customer for acting in accordance with said policy?
You don't want OC, OK. Others want to OC, OK. OC Problem solved.
That doesn't solve the problem of this Cabela's treating customers (who OC in accordance with store policy & state law) like crap.
Rep added. I'll call them. I'd call right now if they were open.
Well, I guess the question is, have other's open carried there without incident? Did they just not like the cut of Scudder's jib and singled him out? Or are others regularly asked to leave? If it is a blanket policy of ejecting OC'ers, then yeah, they need to change their sign if it indeed says "we love to see your gun displayed, please open carry in our store".
Just as a side-note, I tried to google the Cabela's gun policy, and found this thread on a different site:
Cabela's store policy - Indiana - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum
Seems Hammond Cabelas has long been a place where OC'ers wanna test the limits of what they can get away with, and dance around with staff. To be honest, they are probably getting pretty sick of it, and ready to jump on anyone they see with a displayed firearm. Just because you are polite and kind doesn't mean the last ten guys they threw out of the store were. You are all gonna get lumped in the same Kook Bucket together.
Cabela's store policy - Indiana - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum
Seems Hammond Cabelas has long been a place where OC'ers wanna test the limits of what they can get away with, and dance around with staff. To be honest, they are probably getting pretty sick of it, and ready to jump on anyone they see with a displayed firearm. Just because you are polite and kind doesn't mean the last ten guys they threw out of the store were. You are all gonna get lumped in the same Kook Bucket together.
I think it safe to assume by reading the OP that THE REASON he was asked to leave WAS BECAUSE OF HIS OC. If they lied about the reason then there's really nothing we can do about that. We can't read minds.
Have you seen the sign that we're referring to? NO it doesn't say those words but you probably knew that anyway. It says that LTCH holders are exempted from the no loaded firearms policy & the requirement to check said firearms at customer service. Also CORPORATE POLICY is that carry is permitted in accordance with federal, state & local laws. If they don't like OC or CC then change the policy. If they are offended by the sight of guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, then stop selling those guns to those citizens.
The problem is the hypocrisy of the entire situation. Hypocrisy sucks.
Maybe, Cabela's should STOP selling the EVIL Guns. I'm sure that their employees are completely traumatized by living in fear that the evil inanimate objects may suddenly arise from their display cases, reload and spring into action like Zombies from a cheap horror movie. The amount of anti gun rhetoric here from some never ceases to amaze me
Just as a side-note, I tried to google the Cabela's gun policy, and found this thread on a different site:
Cabela's store policy - Indiana - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum
Seems Hammond Cabelas has long been a place where OC'ers wanna test the limits of what they can get away with, and dance around with staff. To be honest, they are probably getting pretty sick of it, and ready to jump on anyone they see with a displayed firearm. Just because you are polite and kind doesn't mean the last ten guys they threw out of the store were. You are all gonna get lumped in the same Kook Bucket together.
Exactly where in the thread you posted does it refer to the "Kook Bucket". Just because people enter the store OC'ing in accordance with policy, it doesn't mean they are "test[ing] the limits of what they can get away with, and dance[ing] around with staff". THE POSTED & CORPORATE POLICY SAYS IT'S OK.
You have no evidence to show that there were ten other guys who were thrown out for being impolite while OC'ing. If you do then lets see it. At least we would see a reason for that attitude in that particular store. Somehow I really doubt that's the case.
But if you are in my store, how do I know you are not a kook? With my psychic powers? All I know is you are not a benefit to me...and could possibly be a liability. No store is going to have a desire or expectation for their customers to be their protectors in event of robbery. Quite the opposite.
--See how that is? The presence of a visible gun makes absolutely no difference in your argument. If you are that afraid of visible guns, kooks, and psychics, maybe you should just close down your store.
You make good points. It is true, the crook would likely have the weapon hidden until he makes his move. A store manager cannot act on what he is not aware of. But a gun in plain sight? Now he has to make a judgment call, whether he wants to take a chance on this person or not. If he doesn't know you personally, I'm guessing he'll take the safe option and ask you to leave.
This reminds me of a funny open carry story: flashback to the mid 1980's; Miami Vice was at the height of it's popularity. Everyone was dressing like Don Johnson and packing stainless 9mm's. The day I turned 17, I applied for my LTCH, and got it a few weeks later. My dad bought me a Colt Government in stainless and I was off to the races.
One shiny summer day, me and my best friend were cruising in my decidedly swanky TR7 convertible, doing what we did on most summer days, cruising around looking for babes. We both had shoulder rigs under our jeans jackets. For whatever reason, that day we decided to go Miami Vice and took the jackets off as we did a loop around the strip, figuring we would look cool doing it, being 17 and all. In very short order, the cops predictably pulled us over.
"What the hell are you idiots doing?" says the patrolman. "We have permits for these." we reply. "Yes, but you look like a couple of jackasses. Cover those things up." and then he let us go.
We kinda sat there for a moment. "Yeah, we do look like jackasses."
That's the last time I open carried
Thank you for that insight into your personality. It explains a lot about you. And thank you for not open carrying anymore. Those who open carry should not be jackasses while they do it.
By the way, the whole bit where everyone is calling you a troll is not because you disagree. It's because you troll.
I'm still kinda confused about why a police officer (who is off duty) should have any more right to carry in the store than a citizen.. (I think Bill already kinda touched on this)
I know of a large retail establishment that has a corporate policy that says the only folks who are allowed to have firearms in the store are on-duty, uniformed police officers. (Policy is generally not followed, reading some of the threads on here, as people have both CCd and OCd in the establishment with no issue)
Anyhow, if that were the policy, then sorry Mr. Off Duty, we don't allow firearms in here. If you want to go back outside and change into your duty gear and clock in you can return, but until then, sorry Jack..
If having firearms in the store is such a scary thing, and the soccer moms are nervous about seeing ebil firearms, then what's it matter to the management if the person is an off-duty officer? If somebody's so concerned that they're reporting a person with a firearm, they could probably care less if that person is a public servant..
Am I off base or too tired to be typing this morning?
I know of a large retail establishment that has a corporate policy that says the only folks who are allowed to have firearms in the store are on-duty, uniformed police officers. (Policy is generally not followed, reading some of the threads on here, as people have both CCd and OCd in the establishment with no issue)
Anyhow, if that were the policy, then sorry Mr. Off Duty, we don't allow firearms in here. If you want to go back outside and change into your duty gear and clock in you can return, but until then, sorry Jack..
If having firearms in the store is such a scary thing, and the soccer moms are nervous about seeing ebil firearms, then what's it matter to the management if the person is an off-duty officer? If somebody's so concerned that they're reporting a person with a firearm, they could probably care less if that person is a public servant..
Am I off base or too tired to be typing this morning?
I carry a concealed handgun but I would prefer a lightsaber, so I don't consider myself pro-gun. However, the issue in this thread appears to be about the attitude of a minimum wage clerk who should have added "pretty please, with cream and sugar" and thus there wouldn't be any bruised egos to get fired-up about.
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