educate me about the makarov

[warriorbob]

im curious about the makarovs and Im thinking about picking one up. anyone ever carried one of these for self defense? Whats the major differences between all the models and countries of origin, anyone ever tried one of those spetsnaz holsters?

 

[Manatee]

Self-defense carry? How about the whole Communist Bloc?

 

[Kagnew]

Lots of things to understand about "the Makarov". Not all pistols chambered for the 9X18 Makarov round are "Makarov pistols". True Makarovs (the Pistolet Makarova) were only made in the Soviet Union/Russia, Bulgaria, East Germany/Germany, Red China, and (only a few) in the Kyber Pass area. Contrary to what some people say, the Pistolet Makarova (or "PM") is not a copy nor a clone of the Walther PP/PPK. Certainly there are similarities, but the PM is one of the most ingeniously designed firearms you'll ever see. They have a total of 27 parts (one part, for example, is the trigger spring, the hammer spring and the magazine release) and can be field-stripped in about 10 seconds (if you're slow). It can be totally disassembled by even the most rank amateur using one (usually included) tool. They are all steel, rugged and reliable as an AK-47 or a T34 tank, accurate as the shooter, happily eat even the nastiest ammunition you can find, and pay virtually no attention to dirt. Small enough for pocket-carry (at least with cargo pants and shorts). As you might have guessed, I am quite a "Makarovnik"!

Oh! Almost forgot to mention that the PM was the first handgun in space. Cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin carried one when he became the first man in space in the Vostok 1. The Soviets said that it was for self-defense if he came down in hostile territory, but it was probably meant for giving himself a "Kavorkian injection" if the Vostok went belly-up!

 

[Kagnew]

I guess that you were also asking about other pistols chambered for the 9X18 Makarov cartridge. There are the Polish Radom P64 "CZAK", the Polish P83 "Wanad", the Czechoslovakian CZ vz.82, and the Hungarian FEG PA-63. Many consider the vz.82 to be the best pure "range gun". It does have a 12-round staggered magazine, but it would be a bit large for pocket carry. The P64 CZAK is the smallest of the bunch (only a 6-round magazine) and would be the best of the lot for pocket-carry in all styles of pants. (It's every bit as "pocketable" as a Smith & Wesson 642 revolver.) The P83 Wanad (which was also made in .380 ACP) is probably the least popular and most seldom-seen. And FEG PA-63 is the only one which is not all steel (it has an aluminum alloy frame) but is, otherwise, just about a direct copy of the Walther PP. Whichever one you choose, I would suggest Fiocchi, Sellier & Bellot or Prvi Partizan FMJ for range use, and Hornady Critical Defense JHP for carry. (You can frequently find various Russian- and Chinese-made ammunition for less money, but what I've seen of it is nasty dirty and smells like a septic tank.) Hope all of this helps!

 

[warriorbob]

Also I was wondering if they make a 9mm conversion kit like they do for the tokarev?

 

[Stubz]

Yep, Brown Bear (russian new manufacture ammo) stinks to high heaven. I have shorts that still smell bad from pocket carrying an extra mag after using my Bulgy Mak in a pistol 101 class. Honest, only the pistols fault.

But my Bulgarian (10) has eaten every Brown Bear, Silver Bear, S&B, PP, and Hornaday loading I've offered it and hasn't had any issue's. Only down sides to me is the expense of mags (well, might be personal perception, $25-30 a pop) and lack of readily purchasable night-sights. A decent selection of holsters available. That Spetnaz rig looks pure tacticool, unless you're REALLY going to run a Makarov as part of a hard assault rig; just too bulky for EDC.

I also bought a P-64, put a few rounds through it and decided my ol' full size wasn't so bad. Horrid DA trigger and just bad ergonomics for my hands.

No there is no 9x19 (9mm Lugar / Parabellum) conversion kits. The Makarov uses a direct blow-back action, which as I understand can not operate sufficiently with higher pressures found in rounds over 9x18 / .380acp. Inertia keeps the slide in place long enough for chamber pressure to drop enough to safety extract the cartridge. Higher pressures push the slide too fast, resulting in pressures escaping through the ejection port, which lead to bad things happening to the shooter.

 

[Dewidmt]

I carried one for awhile back in the day, an IJ-70 Russian import. Mine was in .380, so ammo was available. It shot well, but was a bit too big and bulky for just a .380. Lots of newer weapons that are lighter and can handle full blown 9mm out there! If you can find one cheap, go for it, it will do the job. If I remember right, I think I paid a whopping $150 for mine with an extra mag and the military holster.

 

[IndyDave1776]

No there is no 9x19 (9mm Lugar / Parabellum) conversion kits. The Makarov uses a direct blow-back action, which as I understand can not operate sufficiently with higher pressures found in rounds over 9x18 / .380acp. Inertia keeps the slide in place long enough for chamber pressure to drop enough to safety extract the cartridge. Higher pressures push the slide too fast, resulting in pressures escaping through the ejection port, which lead to bad things happening to the shooter.

You are correct withing the limits most of us consider reasonable. The exception is the HiPoint. It uses an ungodly heavy slide in 9mm and .45ACP such as to function as a straight blowback thus saving the cost of machining and higher quality metals required for a locked breech handgun.

 

[Valvestate]

Isnt the walther p1/38 blowback?

 

[Mosinguy]

Isnt the walther p1/38 blowback?

Yes, but it has a locking block.

 

[TheDude]

The East Germans are very nice guns and the Bulgarians are as well. Very reliable and most are surprisingly accurate if you can do your part with the tiny sights.
Give the CZ-82 some consideration as its a very nice piece too.

 

[Birds Away]

I have owned a few CZ-82s and 83s, a couple actual PMs, one Bulgarian and one Russian. I've also owned the Polish P-64 and P-83. The P-64 is the best pocket gun, very reliable and accurate as can be with those tiny sights. I would most definitely choose an actual PM of any stripe over the P-83. I wouldn't personally spend a nickel on the FEG model. For my money the best shooter in the lot is the CZ 82. It is also the biggest. Readily concealable in an IWB holster, they are excellent shooter with less snap than the Makarovs. Good luck.

 

[Kagnew]

I have owned a few CZ-82s and 83s, a couple actual PMs, one Bulgarian and one Russian. I've also owned the Polish P-64 and P-83. The P-64 is the best pocket gun, very reliable and accurate as can be with those tiny sights. I would most definitely choose an actual PM of any stripe over the P-83. I wouldn't personally spend a nickel on the FEG model. For my money the best shooter in the lot is the CZ 82. It is also the biggest. Readily concealable in an IWB holster, they are excellent shooter with less snap than the Makarovs. Good luck.

I'm currently waiting for my P64 CZAK to come back from Ron Mahovsky with its new hard-chrome finish. I'm going to install a set of checkered walnut grips from Marschal (the short version) and use the magazine base from which I've ground and sanded the pinky extension. Should make an outstanding pocket gun. I also sent my vz.82 to Loren Fogel for a strip and field blue and will put a set of Marschal grips on it, too. My Parkerized Bulgarian PM (also a Loren Fogel job) is my truck gun. I think I'm running a rehab center for old ComBloc pistols!

 

[Birds Away]

I'm currently waiting for my P64 CZAK to come back from Ron Mahovsky with its new hard-chrome finish. I'm going to install a set of checkered walnut grips from Marschal (the short version) and use the magazine base from which I've ground and sanded the pinky extension. Should make an outstanding pocket gun. I also sent my vz.82 to Loren Fogel for a strip and field blue and will put a set of Marschal grips on it, too. My Parkerized Bulgarian PM (also a Loren Fogel job) is my truck gun. I think I'm running a rehab center for old ComBloc pistols!

Sounds like a very nice group. I really liked my p64 but ended up selling to to a woman who wanted something she could slip into a pocket. I made sure she shot it a couple of times to ensure she could handle it. They are surprisingly accurate.

 

[Tomc1947]

I'm also new to the Wonderful World of Makarov.
I have a Bulgarian PM and a P83. The PM is a pleasure to shoot, flawless. I'm looking for another one.

I shot a P64: awful trigger, no slide lock, painful recoil. The first thing you have to do when you get one is spend more money on Wolf Springs.
I got a P83 and while it's not very pretty, and uses stamped steel construction, it's very well made.
I'm having minor FTF issues with it but I think the biggest problem is it's basicly a 20 year old new gun and I have to break it in.

 

[servpels]

I have an East German Makarov and a CZ-82. They are both nice to shoot in my opinion. You would definately want to get the Wolf springs.

I may have to sell mine though. I am sure I will regret it if I do though, but economics may dictate what happens.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I also had a CZ-82 and a P64 but sold them just to consolidate calibers. The P64's trigger is only horrible on the first shot (DA). After that it's great! I did the Wolff spring change too... lightened it (DA) up to about 17 lbs.. The CZ was a pleasure to shoot and both were very accurate. I never got around to getting a true Makarov.

 

[Kagnew]

I have an East German Makarov and a CZ-82. They are both nice to shoot in my opinion. You would definately want to get the Wolf springs.

I may have to sell mine though. I am sure I will regret it if I do though, but economics may dictate what happens.

Which one? Or both?

 

[warriorbob]

Loving all the info. I think I'm sold on picking up a pm. Now does anyone have any experience with the spetsnaz holsters?

 

[Kagnew]

I wouldn't personally spend a nickel on the FEG model.

Chief -

Just wondering why you're so down on the FEG P-63. I've never handled one, but have entertained the notion of adding one to the population of my home for wayward ComBloc pistolets. What is there about them that you don't like? Would I be better off keeping the Tokarev which I would have to sell in order to acquire one?

- Kagnew