DUI Question

[VUPDblue]

The PBT is not part of the SFSTs per NHTSA. Minutiae I know but still important. A person skilled and experienced at administering SFSTs does not need a PBT.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Then I would make that argument instead of suggesting he move or making the false distinction between rights and privileges. After all, I didn't note "unless incarcerated" in the 2nd either. I think that's part of the problem of why we can't have these discussions. The absolutist comes out and instead of talking about the merits, well, we get this instead. I think you're better than that, and you're more convincing when you stick to a logical look at the issue.

Incarceration and stripping people of rights as a punishment for unrelated offenses are not even comparable.

I am satisfied that Madison would consider holding up incarceration which is tantamount to the removal of freedom in general as an argument for stripping a free citizen of his rights to be on par with the infamous definition of 'is'.

 

[Kutnupe14]

But part of the SFST's is the use of a PBT. That should give you plenty of PC to take the person in for a test on a certified machine (if the person is drunk). I have seen several people pass several stages of the SFST's and still test over the limit on the PBT. For us the last part can only be the PBT.

Yep, the PBT does nothing but reinforce what you already know, or tell you to get a blood draw if the other tests indicate impairment.

 

[Fargo]

Of curiousity, what do the officers on here do if you have odor of Alcohol/infraction but the person declines to do SFSTs and PBT?

 

[VUPDblue]

For me it depends on the infraction(s) and any other observations I may have made like speech, dexterity, eyes, balance, etc..

 

[j706]

Of curiousity, what do the officers on here do if you have odor of Alcohol/infraction but the person declines to do SFSTs and PBT?

Blood draw warrant.

 

[Fargo]

Blood draw warrant.

Why would you do a warrant when the statute requires you to read implied consent first?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why would you do a warrant when the statute requires you to read implied consent first?

Geeeezzzz, would you be quiet already. Cheese and crackers.

 

[Joniki]

I think I'll drink a beer....

 

[Denny347]

But part of the SFST's is the use of a PBT. That should give you plenty of PC to take the person in for a test on a certified machine (if the person is drunk). I have seen several people pass several stages of the SFST's and still test over the limit on the PBT. For us the last part can only be the PBT.

PBT results are NOT admissible in court. I use a PBT to determine that we are dealing with ETOH.

 

[Denny347]

Of curiousity, what do the officers on here do if you have odor of Alcohol/infraction but the person declines to do SFSTs and PBT?

Well, depends on driving behavior, speech, etc. There CAN be PC but it must be carefully articulated in the PC.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Geeeezzzz, would you be quiet already. Cheese and crackers.

Ritz with cheddar? Now I am getting hungry for that perfect snack! Thanks Kirk.

 

[AA&E]

FSTs are used to detect impairment. If you stop someone for bad driving behavior, they smell like booze and you think they may be impaired, you offer FSTs to develop probable cause to offer the breath/blood test. Now, if the person is boozer smelling, can't hardly speak, can't walk and falls all over themselves, you have enough PC to offer the breath/blood tests right there.

Can a person legally refuse the FST's and instead request a breathalyzer? Reason I ask, my wife was only born with one ear/canal, the other is a surgical reconstruction. So if an officer expects her to do things that might be negatively influenced by balance, she is automatically at a disadvantage. Walking a straight line toe to heel, tilting head back and closing her eyes, etc. All things she can't do well on her best day.

 

[nra4ever]

The officer will asked about potential disability then in her case do the HGN and pbt. If there is no odor of alcohol and low reading or zero reading on the pbt depending on if he has DRE training he may let her go or do a blood draw if she still has PC for impairment.

 

[Denny347]

Can a person legally refuse the FST's and instead request a breathalyzer? Reason I ask, my wife was only born with one ear/canal, the other is a surgical reconstruction. So if an officer expects her to do things that might be negatively influenced by balance, she is automatically at a disadvantage. Walking a straight line toe to heel, tilting head back and closing her eyes, etc. All things she can't do well on her best day.

No. Her condition should have no effect of Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test, the first SFST administered. There are only 3 SFST's: HGN, 9 step walk and turn, and 1 leg stand. If I have driving behavior, my observations during the stop, and nothing else, I COULD have PC for implied consent. If I can add HGN, even better. If they cannot perform the 9 step and the 1 leg due to medical reasons, that's ok. I can approximate your BAC with HGN only if that is all I have. I haven't done as many DUIs as VUPDblue but I've done a couple of hundred and used to work DUI Task Force. Do enough and my observations are very close to the actual BAC.

 

[wally05]

No. Her condition should have no effect of Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test, the first SFST administered. There are only 3 SFST's: HGN, 9 step walk and turn, and 1 leg stand. If I have driving behavior, my observations during the stop, and nothing else, I COULD have PC for implied consent. If I can add HGN, even better. If they cannot perform the 9 step and the 1 leg due to medical reasons, that's ok. I can approximate your BAC with HGN only if that is all I have. I haven't done as many DUIs as VUPDblue but I've done a couple of hundred and used to work DUI Task Force. Do enough and my observations are very close to the actual BAC.

This x1000. And the PBT is not used for PC. HGN is a pretty solid test to use and if combined with other observations, can easily be used to construct PC for a breath test/blood draw. I would note what the person said about ear canal problems and still attempt the test as about every DUI I've had, the driver has said "I have balance issues" "I have hip problems and can't balance", etc.

 

[Fargo]

No. Her condition should have no effect of Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test, the first SFST administered. There are only 3 SFST's: HGN, 9 step walk and turn, and 1 leg stand. If I have driving behavior, my observations during the stop, and nothing else, I COULD have PC for implied consent. If I can add HGN, even better. If they cannot perform the 9 step and the 1 leg due to medical reasons, that's ok. I can approximate your BAC with HGN only if that is all I have. I haven't done as many DUIs as VUPDblue but I've done a couple of hundred and used to work DUI Task Force. Do enough and my observations are very close to the actual BAC.

This x1000. And the PBT is not used for PC. HGN is a pretty solid test to use and if combined with other observations, can easily be used to construct PC for a breath test/blood draw. I would note what the person said about ear canal problems and still attempt the test as about every DUI I've had, the driver has said "I have balance issues" "I have hip problems and can't balance", etc.

Where is this legal obligation to take FST's coming from? If they are presented to a subject as involuntary, they are not going to be admissible in court most likely.

Also, the only way that a PBT is admissible in court is solely for a showing of PC.

 

[nra4ever]

You can always refuse to take the FST. That does not stop the officer from finding PC based on other observations to read you the implied consent. The pbt result is not admissible.

 

[lrahm]

PBT results are NOT admissible in court. I use a PBT to determine that we are dealing with ETOH.

It is part of our SOP's. Gaze Nyst, straight line walk, holding your foot off the ground and then the PBT. If we suspect something else, we then call for a DRE officer. We have a checklist of each section and you can lose points for each item that is done wrong. If you get so many points, you fail. That was not for you but the others that might not understand. I had people that could almost pass the test but still blow a .15 on the PBT.

 

[lrahm]

You can always refuse to take the FST. That does not stop the officer from finding PC based on other observations to read you the implied consent. The pbt result is not admissible.

You are right, it is not admissible but it does show PC to take a person for a test on a certified machine. Also if you refuse to take any test it is a refusal and you get locked up and license suspended.