drunk officer kills motorcyclist

[Denny347]

I guess I will just go with the group....GUILTY. No need for a trial. I and several co-workers work with Dave. Some of the them are very good friends with him and were on the scene. We have been sitting around since then racking our brains in disbelief. There are 2 options here. Option A: He is a true closet drunk that is able to function at .19 BAC and has a SERIOUS problem. Option B: There is something wrong with the sample. I do not pretend to know which is correct, we will know in time. But if option A is correct, then I and his close friends were in the dark...totally blind sided. That is a scary prospect for me to wrap my brain around...If he is found guilty then I agree he gets what he deserves. We have trials for a reason and I hope to get answers from this one.

 

[MinuteMan47]

He surrendered after the warrant was issued once the test results were complete. It happens everyday. This is not a one time occurrence unique to this incident.

There shouldn't have been any warrant.

 

[IndyMonkey]

There shouldn't have been any warrant.

Heres what changed it for everyone. No one at the scene suspected that he was drunk.

If you killed someone in the same manor you wouldnt of went to jail either.

 

[public servant]

You're both making a lot of assumptions.

Then you did report it. Good for you. for doing the right thing.

And to show I really do have manners...my apologies for thinking you did anything but the right thing.

What was the outcome after you turned them both in...if I may ask?

 

[Denny347]

absolutely amazing i get arrested for owi while sitting in a parked vehicle in a private parking lot. i get to go straight to jail, lose my job and cost me alot of money. this bozo kills somebody then gets to surrender when its convenient for him. and leo really have to wonder why there is distrust amongst the community. and as far as double standards if this isnt it i dont know what is.

He turns himself in because no one suspected alcohol at the scene. State law requires a blood draw for fatal crashes. If no one suspected alcohol then why would there be PC for an arrest? I have done this before for non-leo DUI crashes. I get blood, take all my information to the prosecutor, they file a warrant, they call the driver and inform them of the warrant and let them turn themselves in. It is not favortism, it is how it works. Problem is that most people only know the CJ system from he outside looking in. It is much more clear from the inside I promise. Oh by the way, case law says a car "legally" parked in a parking lot in NOT operating for the purposes of a OWI. Not sure how long ago your DUI was or what county but this ruling was fairly recent in Indy.

 

[E5RANGER375]

You're both making a lot of assumptions.

just based on the limited info you gave. you cant expect to make a limited statement like that without getting some heat. im not saying your a bad guy. i was just commenting on the incident you mentioned from 99

 

[serpicostraight]

He turns himself in because no one suspected alcohol at the scene. State law requires a blood draw for fatal crashes. If no one suspected alcohol then why would there be PC for an arrest? I have done this before for non-leo DUI crashes. I get blood, take all my information to the prosecutor, they file a warrant, they call the driver and inform them of the warrant and let them turn themselves in. It is not favortism, it is how it works. Problem is that most people only know the CJ system from he outside looking in. It is much more clear from the inside I promise. Oh by the way, case law says a car "legally" parked in a parking lot in NOT operating for the purposes of a OWI. Not sure how long ago your DUI was or what county but this ruling was fairly recent in Indy.

mine was about a year and a half ago in vanderburgh county my lawyer did say after the trial was over that my case might help the same thing from happening again and im glad it did but still sux for me. and as far as the case here of turning yourself in after the warrant is issued if thats the way it worls for everybody then im fine with it. he is still a citizen and deserves the same treatment as everyone else. it still amazes me that someone can go to jail for sitting there minding thier own business and someone else can kill someone and walk away but i guess thats how the system works. still makes me shake my head.

 

[Benny]

He surrendered after the warrant was issued once the test results were complete. It happens everyday. This is not a one time occurrence unique to this incident.

I know a guy(he is still an "acquaintance" via mutual friends I see from time) that killed his best friend/one of my good friends in a single car accident. He was there for the funeral, but ended up serving ~18 months in jail, so you have a point.

I have a question though...If I got pulled over, refused a Breathalyzer and took the blood test instead, would I get to go home until the results were in?

(Sorry buddy, I couldn't help myself)

I guess I will just go with the group....GUILTY. No need for a trial. I and several co-workers work with Dave. Some of the them are very good friends with him and were on the scene. We have been sitting around since then racking our brains in disbelief. There are 2 options here. Option A: He is a true closet drunk that is able to function at .19 BAC and has a SERIOUS problem. Option B: There is something wrong with the sample. I do not pretend to know which is correct, we will know in time. But if option A is correct, then I and his close friends were in the dark...totally blind sided. That is a scary prospect for me to wrap my brain around...If he is found guilty then I agree he gets what he deserves. We have trials for a reason and I hope to get answers from this one.

No need to go with the group(especially if you know him and don't think/want it to be true), but could you address my questions please?



Edit: After rereading my questions I asked over an hour ago, I realized you sort of answered the first two, but what about number 3?

 

[MinuteMan47]

Heres what changed it for everyone. No one at the scene suspected that he was drunk.

If you killed someone in the same manor you wouldnt of went to jail either.

Well, if I had a .19, hit someone, and killed them it would be OBVIOUS that I was drunk.
So, probably..............

HOW DO YOU NOT SUSPECT IT WITH A .19 ?!?!

Did no one TALK to him and SMELL HIS BREATH?!.............My guess is that's exactly what happened..."Dude! You smell like a brewery!! You better high tail it outa here!!! "

 

[IndyMonkey]

Well, if I had a .19, hit someone, and killed them it would be OBVIOUS that I was drunk.
So, probably..............

HOW DO YOU NOT SUSPECT IT WITH A .19 ?!?!

Did no one TALK to him and SMELL HIS BREATH?!

As I have stated earlier I would be on the floor trying to get the world to stop spinning.

If he was an Alcoholic then he has been functioning as one for years as a police officer.

 

[XMil]

Then you did report it. Good for you. for doing the right thing.

And to show I really do have manners...my apologies for thinking you did anything but the right thing.

What was the outcome after you turned them both in...if I may ask?

If we ever meet, I'll tell you the whole story. The whole thing was disturbing, but I'm not going to drag someones name through the mud on an internet forum.

 

[Denny347]

Well, if I had a .19, hit someone, and killed them it would be OBVIOUS that I was drunk.
So, probably..............

HOW DO YOU NOT SUSPECT IT WITH A .19 ?!?!

Did no one TALK to him and SMELL HIS BREATH?!.............My guess is that's exactly what happened..."Dude! You smell like a brewery!! You better high tail it outa here!!! "

There is the rub...there was no smell, or other signs. Brass, fellow officers, officers form other depts, even civilians that interacted with him smelled NOTHING or saw NOTHING that indicated a DUI. No coverup...

 

[Benny]

Denny, would you please address my question(s)?

 

[Pami]

Denny, would you please address my question(s)?

Seeing as how this thread has blown up in the last few hours, linking to the post you asked them in or asking the unanswered one again might help.

 

[public servant]

3. How do we know that his arm was swabbed with alcohol(or how does the report know)?

Indystar had the PC affidavit linked on their page. I read it somewhere...and I think it was detailed there. But now I can't find the link to it.

Denny probably has more info though.

 

[Denny347]

1. What does him becoming functional at .19 without people around him knowing have to do with holding judgement?

2. Would it be possible for someone with 0.0% in their system fail a blood test by .19% just by swabbing the arm with alcohol? Nix that; .14%?(because you can get a DUI at .05% or over, correct?)

3. How do we know that his arm was swabbed with alcohol(or how does the report know)?

1. Because I have no reason to believe he was a drunk at that level. So I withhold judgment until more evidence is presented.
2. Alcohol swabbing WILL affect a BAC. I just do not know to what extent.
3. I know/work people on FACT 6 who were at the scene.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The nurse swabbed Dave's arm for the blood draw with ALCOHOL, not Betadine . BIG NO NO. Why? Because the alcohol in the swab affects the blood sample.

2. Alcohol swabbing WILL affect a BAC. I just do not know to what extent.

my wife is a nurse and does blood draws every day. i just asked her about your post and she says that alcohol is always used for these test anymore. she told me that the test comes like this:

1 box that contains;
1 sealed package with a vacume sealed grey top tube in a seperate sealed package

1 sealed package with a barrel, needle, ALCOHOL SWAB, gauze, tourniquet, bandaid, etc.

if the tube has been tampered with in any way then it will not draw blood because of the vacume seal. also she said the alcohol is lightly wiped and evaporates before the needle is inserted. but it does not contaminate the sample.

his argument holds no water. hes a lying drunk and a criminal murderer still in denial of his problems if he's feeding you this crap. I was pretty sure of it before but i wanted to confirm this stuff before i commented fully. shure he deserves a jury trial, but the only way he will get off is if his lawyer pulls a miracle technicality out of his behind.

my wifes testimony would count as expert testimony in court and she would swear to it under oath. until i hear from an expert with higher certification than her with proof that it affects a blood draw, then i will conclude he's a guilty liar

 

[Denny347]

my wife is a nurse and does blood draws every day. i just asked her about your post and she says that alcohol is always used for these test anymore. she told me that the test comes like this:

1 box that contains;
1 sealed package with a vacume sealed grey top tube in a seperate sealed package

1 sealed package with a barrel, needle, ALCOHOL SWAB, gauze, tourniquet, bandaid, etc.

if the tube has been tampered with in any way then it will not draw blood because of the vacume seal. also she said the alcohol is lightly wiped and evaporates before the needle is inserted. but it does not contaminate the sample.

his argument holds no water. hes a lying drunk and a criminal murderer still in denial of his problems if he's feeding you this crap. I was pretty sure of it before but i wanted to confirm this stuff before i commented fully. shure he deserves a jury trial, but the only way he will get off is if his lawyer pulls a miracle technicality out of his behind.

Uh, I haven't talked to Dave since this occurred. Yes for medical blood draws that is fine. However, for DUI cases, a test sample can get thrown out if using anything other than a betadine prep. It has been like that for many years. It is one of the first questions asked at trial or a depo. I am not saying it is right...just how it is. A DUI arrest properly done is more technical than any murder arrest I've made. For that reason I have always included in my PC a statement that I witnesses the blood draw and the nurse used a betadine prep. I am not a medical professional so I am ignorant of that aspect. I only know what I did as a DUI car for so long and the laws regarding that. Come from years of trials against DUI attorneys getting paid 10-20 grand to defend a DUI arrest.

 

[Benny]

Seeing as how this thread has blown up in the last few hours, linking to the post you asked them in or asking the unanswered one again might help.

Good call and noted, but he responded to the quote directly after mine.

1. Because I have no reason to believe he was a drunk at that level. So I withhold judgment until more evidence is presented.
2. Alcohol swabbing WILL affect a BAC. I just do not know to what extent.
3. I know/work people on FACT 6 who were at the scene.

1. Drunk, or "drunk at that level?"

2. Yeah, unless there is an extensive study done, it'd be really hard to say exactly how much it affects it, but I have a hard time believing it would bring it up .14%(since you can get a DUI at .05%)

3. They noticed the person used alcohol to swab, knew that wasn't proper protocol, but didn't bring it up until after the test results were back?***Skeptical face***



Edit: I just realized you said "a" drunk at that level(ie. that big of a drunk)...I thought you said "no reason to believe he was drunk at that level(BAC).

 

[downzero]

I'll let you read for yourself:


Garrity Warning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know what Garrity is. My question is why it wouldn't apply to these particular facts.

(on edit. I honestly don't know. I haven't studied this because it hasn't applied to anything I've studied).