Drunk Moron

[IndyGunner]

Self defense. When does it become offense?

A very good question to ask. I dont think what I did was offense, however you could argue I put myself in a bad situation. However, I could argue he put himself in a bad situation by doing what he did. I think had I drawn on him, chased them, etc. that it would have been offense. I will absolutely not use lethal force unless I am in fear for my life or someone else's.

 

[jamesg]

Self defense. When does it become offense?

there was no self defense in this case. It was a guy reacting to a situation that really didn't involve him. He could clearly see plenty enough detail to see if his property was being affected based on the detail he was able to discern before going outside.

Call the cops and you're done in this scenario, no car, not even mine, is worth anyone's life. I'll gladly give the guy the keys before I would draw a gun. All things in perspective.

 

[jd4320t]

Self defense. When does it become offense?

Exactly.

 

[gungirl65]

Overall I think you handled the situation well. Maybe going outside wasn't the smartest thing to do, but you were reacting in the heat of the moment. It's easy for others to tell you to stay in your apartment but how many of them would have actually followed their own advice? You were armed and ready. You didn't go out all redneck, you never drew on the other person. I would hope that if necessary you could have retreated. I also hope you had your cell phone on you so you could call for help if needed. You should have probably called the LEO's before going outside, but other than that I think you did a good job.

Everyone got to go home when it was over and nothing bad happened. Use this as a learning experience and think of areas you would like to improve on in case something like this happens again in the future. Be prepared for the next time.

 

[jd4320t]

there was no self defense in this case. It was a guy reacting to a situation that really didn't involve him. He could clearly see plenty enough detail to see if his property was being affected based on the detail he was able to discern before going outside.

Call the cops and you're done in this scenario, no car, not even mine, is worth anyone's life. I'll gladly give the guy the keys before I would draw a gun. All things in perspective.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Bunnykid68]

there was no self defense in this case. It was a guy reacting to a situation that really didn't involve him. He could clearly see plenty enough detail to see if his property was being affected based on the detail he was able to discern before going outside.

Call the cops and you're done in this scenario, no car, not even mine, is worth anyone's life. I'll gladly give the guy the keys before I would draw a gun. All things in perspective.

You would gladly hand the keys to someone elses car so it could be stolen?

Am I really hearing all of you correctly? Does no one have any respect for anything unless it belongs to them?

People in this country use to look out for each other, we used to be able to leave our cars and our houses unlocked.

Now I see why we can no longer do that, no one is even willing to look out for their neighbors stuff, let the cops handle it

 

[IndyGunner]

He could clearly see plenty enough detail to see if his property was being affected based on the detail he was able to discern before going outside.

He was in between my car and the (missing) red impala (in the spot to the right of mine.)

 

[IndyGunner]

Overall I think you handled the situation well. Maybe going outside wasn't the smartest thing to do, but you were reacting in the heat of the moment. It's easy for others to tell you to stay in your apartment but how many of them would have actually followed their own advice? You were armed and ready. You didn't go out all redneck, you never drew on the other person. I would hope that if necessary you could have retreated. I also hope you had your cell phone on you so you could call for help if needed. You should have probably called the LEO's before going outside, but other than that I think you did a good job.

Everyone got to go home when it was over and nothing bad happened. Use this as a learning experience and think of areas you would like to improve on in case something like this happens again in the future. Be prepared for the next time.

I had my back to my front door cell phone in my left pocket as always

 

[Lex Concord]

Back to the original topic:

Lots of double standards here in many of these threads...

You're in line at the bank, and in the front of the line is a man holding up the teller. You've got your firearm, but you're not gonna do anything? We should call the police right?


Lot of preaching about owning/carrying firearms, tons of "what-if" posts, yet very few people have been confronted with these situations in real life. It's easy to criticize someone else's actions while you're sitting comfortably in your home office chair.....

Everyone has their soapbox... We're all "good, honest, law abiding citizens," yet a lot of people take the attitude of "it's not your ****, why help out your neighbor?"

Weak....

+1 to OP - I'll go out and protect my neighbor's property as well, every time. And I know for a fact he'll do the same.

Armed robbery is a forcible felony.

Beating on an unoccupied car is not (worst case is private property damaged).

Try again.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I would have went outside too. The cops are not there for your protection or to stop crime. It is up to us to help protect our friends and neighbors IMHO

You'd be hard pressed to find an officer that will ever tell you that.
I don't fault the OP for confronting someone that's actively attempting, or is believed to be, damaging his property. However, picking up the phone, and calling for some support isn't a bad idea; especially if the situation went south.
Further, what did these drunk morons do after they left? Did they go and beat on someone else's property? Did they get in a car and drive away? If they were drunk and acting like morons, they are not only a possible threat to themselves, but to other people as well.

 

[IndyGunner]

You'd be hard pressed to find an officer that will ever tell you that.
I don't fault the OP for confronting someone that's actively attempting, or is believed to be, damaging his property. However, picking up the phone, and calling for some support isn't a bad idea; especially if the situation went south.
Further, what did these drunk morons do after they left? Did they go and beat on someone else's property? Did they get in a car and drive away? If they were drunk and acting like morons, they are not only a possible threat to themselves, but to other people as well.

I dont think calling the police is a bad idea. I just didnt.

They ran and probably did what you just said. There are tons of reports of vandalism including (but not limited to) breaking windows, spray paint, throwing trash bins at cars, slashing tires, throwing "for rent" signs through windows, etc. (all of which I have seen or had happen to me). I wish they could have spent the night in jail, but it (obviously) wasnt smart or worth it to chase them down and "detain" them. (which I would consider to be vigilante or offensive). There was no way the police would have been here in time, and I can see the university police station from my window.

 

[chasekerion4]

Armed robbery is a forcible felony.

Beating on an unoccupied car is not (worst case is private property damaged).

Try again.

Try again? How about this:

You know right from wrong? Then practice it. As someone else stated, we used to be able to leave doors unlocked. No longer is that the case. We can't even count on our own neighbors anymore.

Some gun owners go out of their way to be bigger p***ies than they were BEFORE they carried. Just because you carry doesn't mean you are obligated to run away from anything that somewhat sitting in front of a computer might construe as "dangerous."

To me, this is simple "right and wrong" - and trying to help your neighbor and innocent victim is never a bad thing.

In the end, the OP WAS, in fact, armed. Maybe the idiots beating the car were, too. Then again, maybe they weren't. but the OP, we know, WAS armed. THAT, sir, is the advantage here.

Sit back and call the police while my neighbor's car is getting bashed in? Not this guy. Funny how people are so afraid to assist someone from being a victim of crime, yet carry to protect themselves from crime.

And that weapon I carry means I am prepared to save my own life, after trying to protect my neighbor's property, should they take an ill-advised approach towards me after not liking my interference with their bull****.

 

[Lex Concord]

Try again? How about this:

You know right from wrong? Then practice it. As someone else stated, we used to be able to leave doors unlocked. No longer is that the case. We can't even count on our own neighbors anymore.

Some gun owners go out of their way to be bigger pussies than they were BEFORE they carried. Just because you carry doesn't mean you are obligated to run away from anything that somewhat sitting in front of a computer might construe as "dangerous."

To me, this is simple "right and wrong" - and trying to help your neighbor and innocent victim is never a bad thing.

In the end, the OP WAS, in fact, armed. Maybe the idiots beating the car were, too. Then again, maybe they weren't. but the OP, we know, WAS armed. THAT, sir, is the advantage here.

Sit back and call the police while my neighbor's car is getting bashed in? Not this guy. Funny how people are so afraid to assist someone from being a victim of crime, yet carry to protect themselves from crime.

And that weapon I carry means I am prepared to save my own life, after trying to protect my neighbor's property, should they take an ill-advised approach towards me after not liking my interference with their bull****.

Overreact much?

I never said helping a neighbor was a bad thing. I will never unnecessarily put my life in jeopardy or in the situation where I may have to take the life of another over property.

It's stuff. It ain't worth it. Buy insurance.

You can call it being a *****, I call it valuing life over stuff and what others might think of my manhood.

The point still stands. You used a very bad analogy. Try again.

 

[gohard43]

This thread is one big hissy fit.

+1 to OP. I would have done the same thing.

 

[chasekerion4]

Overreact much?

I never said helping a neighbor was a bad thing. I will never unnecessarily put my life in jeopardy or in the situation where I may have to take the life of another over property.

It's stuff. It ain't worth it. Buy insurance.

You can call it being a *****, I call it valuing life over stuff and what others might think of my manhood.

The point still stands. You used a very bad analogy. Try again.

So we know you're not a LEO, then? Or military? Nevertheless....

Do unto others?....

Value whose life more than stuff? Yours? Theirs? Do you think it's a good thing when an armed LTCH holder shoots and kills a criminal? Are you one of those "one for the good guys" people? Personally, I believe the criminal's life (in this situation) has absolutely no worth.

Yes, it's just stuff. But taking the approach of watching vs. helping is A) pretty damn selfish and B) exactly why there's so much crime. The police can't catch it all, they can't prevent it all, nor can they even convict it all. The public has to help.

Flip the roles. It's YOUR car getting smashed in. You go out and try to stop someone from beating your car. As you run out, they take off running. You turn around and see your neighbor watching out the window. Don't know about you, but me and neighbor are no longer on speaking terms after this.

Glad we're not neighbors...

YMMV.

 

[Lex Concord]

Do unto others?....

How one chooses to end that one makes all the difference in the world.

Value whose life more than stuff? Yours? Theirs?

Anyone's.

Do you think it's a good thing when an armed LTCH holder shoots and kills a criminal? Are you one of those "one for the good guys" people?

Yes, if someone was being protected from harm.

Personally, I believe the criminal's life (in this situation) has absolutely no worth.

I believe redemption is possible. YMMV.

Yes, it's just stuff. But taking the approach of watching vs. helping is A) pretty damn selfish and B) exactly why there's so much crime. The police can't stop it all, they can't prevent it all, nor can they even convict it all. The public has to help.

Flip the roles. It's YOUR car getting smashed in. You go out and try to stop someone from beating your car. As you run out, they take off running. You turn around and see your neighbor watching out the window. Don't know about you, but me and neighbor are no longer on speaking terms after this.

I think you missed the point. It's stuff...I don't run out, even for my car. Neither it, nor anything in it, is worth me risking my ability to provide for or protect my family 10 seconds or 10 years in the future. If that's selfish, then that I am, and fiercely so.

If the OP or you think charging into that type of situation is the right thing to do for you, kudos...I pray you don't kill anyone that doesn't truly deserve it or get killed or hurt yourself.

Glad we're not neighbors...

Feeling's mutual, pard.

YMMV.

As it often does.

 

[jamesg]

You would gladly hand the keys to someone elses car so it could be stolen?

Am I really hearing all of you correctly? Does no one have any respect for anything unless it belongs to them?

People in this country use to look out for each other, we used to be able to leave our cars and our houses unlocked.

Now I see why we can no longer do that, no one is even willing to look out for their neighbors stuff, let the cops handle it

let me break it down for you

nobodys life was in danger, worst case outcome, neighbors car gets beat to ****, not your problem, let the neighbor and the cops know, it's a car, not a person, keep things in perspective

guy had good view of scenario

guy could see well enough to see his neighbors car was being vandalized

guy had to choose, mount up weapon and confront on his own or call law enforcement to deal with situation that doesn't involve him

he made the wrong choice

No car, not mine, not your's, is worth going out with a loaded weapon and confronting a stranger who is drunk and obviously violent. That was an irresponsible decision.

Is it good to look out for others?, yes, in this case that responsibility ended when he called the police and notified the neighbor. At no point in time did this scenario warrant playing the part of a LEO, being the lone gunman walking out to be the tough guy and be that guy who "is just looking out for everyone else".......

you seem to be attaching personal emotions to physical belongings that can be replaced. you somehow feel we should draw arms and get confrontational over relatively meaningless items like a car. you need to spend some time getting some perspective. if a persons life was obviously in danger, it would be a different story altogether but it is very important that you get some perspective and understand you don't throw yourself in the middle of a situation that does not involve you over a car with a loaded weapon where you put unnecessary life in danger by being there.

 

[critter592]

OP you seem rather sure of yourself. So why even ask what others would do in that situation?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I would still do it. Like I said I must just be crazy. or just looking for a fight....

 

[jamesg]

I would still do it. Like I said I must just be crazy. or just looking for a fight....

yep, you're one of the reasons i carry, just so you know, not for the guy beating another guys car to ****....because i know there's people out there looking for a reason to blow.....now THAT would be self defense