Dog Attack, Carroll County

[17 squirrel]

I shot it.. Then and there.

 

[j706]

Here in 3 -2-1 pit bull owners that will post pictures of their Bully Dogs sleeping with there children.

I've said it before, every dog I ever had a problem with either at work or at home is in the top 10 Breeds to maul, disfigure and kill.

Same here. All have been pit bulls. I hate those dogs. Yea some are just fine. But it seems as time progresses there are more and more of them that are retarded.

 

[gummergif]

So when I present numbers, not opinions, these sources are attacked, questioned and undermined.

Ok, fine.

Perhaps my sources are wrong. Perhaps the numbers I have seen and read about are out of line. I will concede this - IF proven wrong.

Because what I HAVE NOT seen is a single, verifiable source of numbers from the deniers side. Everyone wants to be an apologist for pit bulls making all sorts of excuses about how they aren't what they appear to be.

So I now challenge all who say pit bulls aren't that dangerous - PROVE IT! Instead of posting opinions, innuendo and anecdotal stories show me ANYTHING from ANYWHERE that proves, statistically that pit bulls, rottweilers, etc are NOT the dangerous dogs the sources that I have so far found to be in such grievous error.

If my sources are so out of line then surely there must be verifiable data out there that says so, right...?

I await your sources of verifiable data with baited breath.

Regards,

Doug

Well, you're kinda asking me to prove a negative. "If the data isn't reliable, show me some data!" Which isn't gonna be easy, but let's give it a shot...

How about the fact that successful bans on bully breeds have no effect on public safety?

Pit Bull Bans: The State of Breed?Specific Legislation

That page mentions studies showing that the bans had no effect on dog attacks, and after implementing them, they discovered that most of the attacks, before and after the ban, had been perpetrated by breeds not covered by it.

This bully breed ban in Maryland cost tax payers hundreds of thousands every year, with no decrease in dog attacks.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...fX6DiY&usg=AFQjCNEi4chN6K9F8iob2JS-VDpWULZ06A

This study by the American journal of veterinary medicine indicated that of those incidents studied, breed was only identifiable in 40 cases. Of these, two were mutts, and 20 other breeds were positively identified. It goes on to identify many different preventable factors in fatal dog attacks identified by the study, specifically stating that breed is *not* one of those factors.

An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

This study indicates that owner behavior, not breed, is the primary factor in dog attacks:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...VqcAX8&usg=AFQjCNGxcCpn-IwrhaTM_k0Vul0EkIcFyA

Another study by the university of Bristol showing the same - I couldn't find this actual study (except behind a paywall) but here's a blog entry from the head researcher:

https://theconversation.com/dog-aggression-has-little-to-do-with-breed-so-test-the-owners-22015

This page goes into more detail about what, in particular, calls the scientific validity of the cdc study into question, along with several others:

Scientific*Studies | Stop BSL

Hell, that CDC study, the very one you cited, says right in it that the study's data *cannot be interpreted in that manner.*

Even the source you cited, the one that seems to be cited most often in these matters, specifically goes out of it's way to say it does not support the claim you're trying to make.

 

[j706]

One of my old Army buddy's is on NYPD, he told me that even 10 years ago pit bull attacks were not as common as they are now even though he claims there was almost as many. He seems to think that it is due to inbreeding of the things. That kind of makes sense if you think about it. Anyway my buddy says pit bull attack are almost a daily thing in NYC. That is messed up IMO

 

[Medic2464]

I never run without spray or a firearm

 

[rhino]

Why is it that when someone commits murder with a knife it is all about the heinous crime and person who committed it. But, when the same crime is committed with a gun then it is all about the gun?

An equally good example of a good point.

Is that why you stab yourself so often?

Okay, I see how it is, Mister. I just put your name on a list. A LIST.

 

[Bandsaw]

A couple who live across the road from one of our pastures had a young pit bull. They loved the thing. It played with their small house dog and their toddler grandchild. Knowing the true nature of the beast, I was always prepared to kill it if I found it after our cattle.
One day the house dog offended the pit in some way. It tore the small dog to pieces inside the house, with the owner trying to stop the attack. The shaken lady said the result would have been the same if the grandchild had been the victim. They put the dog down.
That is the norm, in my experience. Pit bulls simply cannot be trusted. They seem to be fine dogs until suddenly they are not, and you never know what may trigger an attack.
i want a dog I can rely on, and a pit isn't that.

 

[Thor]

Carnivorous animals can't be trusted no matter what Disney says.

They may agree to share your life but do not every be fooled into a complacency that would sacrifice your kith and kin to their resentments...sort of like the government that way I guess.

It's like people who raise Tigers and say they are harmless...until one day they are the Tigers lunch. When I was in NY years ago one family had their daughter terribly mauled by the family 'pets' when she came home from college, even though she was raised with the animals from childhood. Never take it for granted, ever.

And I say this as someone who's had dogs in the house for decades...when my daughter was born I moved one to the garage permanently because I didn't trust its reaction. After that we never left her alone with it.

 

[churchmouse]

Growing up around farm folks it was the norm to see them put down an animal that had become destructive or useless/dangerous. Dogs were on a cycle. There were always a couple on the farm. Once they got a taste for eggs or the chickens (seemed to be routine) they were put down with no fanfare about it. Mattered not that they were playful or good companions.
Gramps and Great gramps had some hunting dogs. If one of them stepped out of line it did not make it back home. It was just the way of things.

 

[CindyE]

Our old pit bull is 11 yrs old, and probably nearing the end of his days. He's been a great dog. I'd trust him over our "less aggressive" dogs. Although I'd like to own another pit one of these days, I may not, mostly because I'm tired of having to constantly defend my choice of breed, and worry about laws that may change and prohibit me from having one. I'll always have a soft spot for these dogs, and support the responsible owners.

 

[nakinate]

Okay, I see how it is, Mister. I just put your name on a list. A LIST.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

So when I present numbers, not opinions, these sources are attacked, questioned and undermined.

Ok, fine.

Perhaps my sources are wrong. Perhaps the numbers I have seen and read about are out of line. I will concede this - IF proven wrong.

Because what I HAVE NOT seen is a single, verifiable source of numbers from the deniers side. Everyone wants to be an apologist for pit bulls making all sorts of excuses about how they aren't what they appear to be.

So I now challenge all who say pit bulls aren't that dangerous - PROVE IT! Instead of posting opinions, innuendo and anecdotal stories show me ANYTHING from ANYWHERE that proves, statistically that pit bulls, rottweilers, etc are NOT the dangerous dogs the sources that I have so far found to be in such grievous error.

If my sources are so out of line then surely there must be verifiable data out there that says so, right...?

I await your sources of verifiable data with baited breath.

Regards,

Doug

You say verifiable, what exactly is verifiable about the studies you posted? You stated the CDC study was verified by the HSUS by dogs registered by them. But you didn't respond when I pointed out that the HSUS doesn't register dogs, and that the study wasn't verified by them. You also left out several things from the ASPCA report that you didn't like because of your opinion.

A couple of things, what do you consider a "pit bull" you do know that there are multiple breeds that fall under that classification right? Staffordshire terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Am pit bull terrier, Am Bull dog, Bull terrier.... And a couple more that some consider in that group such as Boxers. So when you take at a minimum a half a dozen breeds and lump them together against individual breeds it skews the results. Then add in any dog that remotely resembles those breeds it skews them even more. Heck I have a pure bred lab that I've been told is a "pit bull mix", I used to have a neighbor that had two dogs that everyone said were "pit bulls" or mixes. None of the bully breeds were in them, they were lab/dingo mixes.

Here is some states from your CDC study, over a 5 year period between 1975-1980 there was one bully type breed in the top 5, that was the Bull terrier(#3). The others in order were GSD, Husky type, St. Bernard, Great Dane and Malamute. Do you know what the number 6 dog was? Golden retriever. Dachshunds had more DBRF than Rottweilers and Chows along with tying Boxers, Doberman Pinchers and the great family dog Collies. Heck Yorkshire terriers had as many deaths as Rottweilers in that time period. What has changed between now and then?

Same here. All have been pit bulls. I hate those dogs. Yea some are just fine. But it seems as time progresses there are more and more of them that are retarded.

Which breed? Or just pit bull "type"? See above for more info on what I mean.

One of my old Army buddy's is on NYPD, he told me that even 10 years ago pit bull attacks were not as common as they are now even though he claims there was almost as many. He seems to think that it is due to inbreeding of the things. That kind of makes sense if you think about it. Anyway my buddy says pit bull attack are almost a daily thing in NYC. That is messed up IMO

Again what is a "pit bull"? And inbreeding may be part of the problem, along with indiscriminate breeding. IMO a much larger part of it is that certain types of people want a "big mean tough dog" and pit types are "known" to be that and they abuse them to make them so. Along with an increase in "street type" dog fighting which has a large association with gangs.

A couple who live across the road from one of our pastures had a young pit bull. They loved the thing. It played with their small house dog and their toddler grandchild. Knowing the true nature of the beast, I was always prepared to kill it if I found it after our cattle.
One day the house dog offended the pit in some way. It tore the small dog to pieces inside the house, with the owner trying to stop the attack. The shaken lady said the result would have been the same if the grandchild had been the victim. They put the dog down.
That is the norm, in my experience. Pit bulls simply cannot be trusted. They seem to be fine dogs until suddenly they are not, and you never know what may trigger an attack. i want a dog I can rely on, and a pit isn't that.

The "true nature of the beast" is that it is a dog. All dogs are fine until they are not. I knew a Newfoundland/Lab mix that was fine until it was not. It attempted to attack my brother and did attack me. We both got lucky. It was my Dad's that he got from someone else because it attacked a babysitter. He was told that the girl had provoked it. Found out later that the dog had attacked several people before that, this was just the only one that resulted in serious injuries. How I provoked the dog was I bent down and gave it a treat and started to turn away, I was lucky because I saw it spin around and start to spring out of the corner of my eye. My brother was over visiting our dad and the dog was lying at my dad's feet, my bro got up to get a pop and when he started to turn his back the dog attacked. My brother was able to grab a chair and put it between him and the dog. My Grandma had a Pekingese that would snap.

 

[churchmouse]

You say verifiable, what exactly is verifiable about the studies you posted? You stated the CDC study was verified by the HSUS by dogs registered by them. But you didn't respond when I pointed out that the HSUS doesn't register dogs, and that the study wasn't verified by them. You also left out several things from the ASPCA report that you didn't like because of your opinion.

A couple of things, what do you consider a "pit bull" you do know that there are multiple breeds that fall under that classification right? Staffordshire terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Am pit bull terrier, Am Bull dog, Bull terrier.... And a couple more that some consider in that group such as Boxers. So when you take at a minimum a half a dozen breeds and lump them together against individual breeds it skews the results. Then add in any dog that remotely resembles those breeds it skews them even more. Heck I have a pure bred lab that I've been told is a "pit bull mix", I used to have a neighbor that had two dogs that everyone said were "pit bulls" or mixes. None of the bully breeds were in them, they were lab/dingo mixes.

Here is some states from your CDC study, over a 5 year period between 1975-1980 there was one bully type breed in the top 5, that was the Bull terrier(#3). The others in order were GSD, Husky type, St. Bernard, Great Dane and Malamute. Do you know what the number 6 dog was? Golden retriever. Dachshunds had more DBRF than Rottweilers and Chows along with tying Boxers, Doberman Pinchers and the great family dog Collies. Heck Yorkshire terriers had as many deaths as Rottweilers in that time period. What has changed between now and then?

Which breed? Or just pit bull "type"? See above for more info on what I mean.

Again what is a "pit bull"? And inbreeding may be part of the problem, along with indiscriminate breeding. IMO a much larger part of it is that certain types of people want a "big mean tough dog" and pit types are "known" to be that and they abuse them to make them so. Along with an increase in "street type" dog fighting which has a large association with gangs.



The "true nature of the beast" is that it is a dog. All dogs are fine until they are not. I knew a Newfoundland/Lab mix that was fine until it was not. It attempted to attack my brother and did attack me. We both got lucky. It was my Dad's that he got from someone else because it attacked a babysitter. He was told that the girl had provoked it. Found out later that the dog had attacked several people before that, this was just the only one that resulted in serious injuries. How I provoked the dog was I bent down and gave it a treat and started to turn away, I was lucky because I saw it spin around and start to spring out of the corner of my eye. My brother was over visiting our dad and the dog was lying at my dad's feet, my bro got up to get a pop and when he started to turn his back the dog attacked. My brother was able to grab a chair and put it between him and the dog. My Grandma had a Pekingese that would snap.

They are all just dogs.
I get my dislike for the "Pit" from personal experience and no more. Have had many confrontations in my yard with roaming "Pitts" that have ended in ways we will not openly discuss on a public forum. Owners, maybe. Bad dogs, probably or a combo of both.
I really do not care as I will not willingly/knowingly put myself or family in the vicinity of one any more.

If you own one, take care of it. If it gets loose and causes damage or harm be responsible for it. If it hurts someone, well, I have no words to share here.
This goes for any breed. Take care of your animals.....period.

 

[rhino]

Our old pit bull is 11 yrs old, and probably nearing the end of his days. He's been a great dog. I'd trust him over our "less aggressive" dogs. Although I'd like to own another pit one of these days, I may not, mostly because I'm tired of having to constantly defend my choice of breed, and worry about laws that may change and prohibit me from having one. I'll always have a soft spot for these dogs, and support the responsible owners.

If you know you're right, why does it matter what other people think and say? Why bother defending your choice if you know it's right? You're not accountable to other people.

 

[gummergif]

If you know you're right, why does it matter what other people think and say? Why bother defending your choice if you know it's right? You're not accountable to other people.

Well, it may have something to do with the number of people here talking about how they'll shoot an aggressive pit without hesitation when (in my experience) most people couldn't identify a pit to save their life, and aren't always that great at telling the difference between canine aggression and playfulness, either.

If you go on the internet, display ignorance on a subject, and then threaten to kill a member of someone's family based on that ignorance in a way that makes you sound almost proud of yourself for it -you *just might* get someone's cackles up.

 

[rhino]

Well, it may have something to do with the number of people here talking about how they'll shoot an aggressive pit without hesitation when (in my experience) most people couldn't identify a pit to save their life, and aren't great at telling the difference between canine aggression and playfulness.

If you go on the internet, display ignorance on a subject, and then threaten to kill a member of someone's family based on that ignorance in a way that makes you sound almost proud of yourself for it -you *just might* get someone's cackles up.

If you know you're right, why does it matter what other people think and say? Why bother defending your choice if you know it's right? You're not accountable to other people.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

They are all just dogs.
I get my dislike for the "Pit" from personal experience and no more. Have had many confrontations in my yard with roaming "Pitts" that have ended in ways we will not openly discuss on a public forum. Owners, maybe. Bad dogs, probably or a combo of both.
I really do not care as I will not willingly/knowingly put myself or family in the vicinity of one any more.

If you own one, take care of it. If it gets loose and causes damage or harm be responsible for it. If it hurts someone, well, I have no words to share here.
This goes for any breed. Take care of your animals.....period.

Yep they are all just dogs. "Pits" are no different than any other breed of large, strong dogs. You say you will not willingly/knowingly put yourself or your family in the vicinity of pits anymore, but you also mentioned in this thread that you have been having problems with a GSD but also state you have been thinking of getting one. What is the difference? At one point GSDs were the #1 breed in DBRF and are currently #3.

You also say bad dogs probably but bad owners maybe. You have talked about your neighborhood many times on this forum, wouldn't you say that the types of people around that cause the problems are most likely the types that would raise/train dogs to be vicious? But you put the blame probably on the breed and just maybe on the owner or combination of both.

I don't own one and never have. Will I own one in the future? Who knows. I never thought I'd have an english pointer or a beagle but I have one of them sitting at my feet right now and the other sitting about 5 ft away. Never thought about owning a Rott until I did, she was one of if not the sweetest dog I have ever owned. And at the time they were the number 1 DBRF breed in the US. She was a "rescue" dog, read rescue as in the guy I got her from took her from the owner after warning him several times about abusing it. She weighed 50-60 lbs when rescued, within 2 mo she was up to 90 at about 3-4 mo she was 115. She never showed any aggressiveness toward people or other dogs, but did once chase a cat. She didn't hurt the cat just chased. She was protective but not aggressive. The most aggressive dog I or my family owned was a cocker spaniel, that sucker was mean, we had a GSD/Husky mix my dad picked up from the pound due to a scare my mom had while he was on midnights, this "aggressive breeds"(at the time #1&2 in DBRF) mix was gentle as anything. The cocker would attempt to fight it and when the mix finally got sick of it, he would take his paw and knock the cocker down and hold it down until it stopped. Heck it would herd the cocker away from people when they came over.

If you know you're right, why does it matter what other people think and say? Why bother defending your choice if you know it's right? You're not accountable to other people.

Why do people defend race/religion/glock vs 1911/etc on this forum? Even if they are no affiliated with any of them?

 

[gummergif]

If you know you're right, why does it matter what other people think and say? Why bother defending your choice if you know it's right? You're not accountable to other people.

Ok, how about this...

Because when people misquote studies to further their own personal agenda it not only makes others think it's ok to go out shooting dogs that *might* be pit bulls, but also causes people's insurance rates to go up and opens the door for ineffective legislation based on misconstrued evidence, which also costs money...

It matters what other people think and say because they don't exist is a vacuum. We live in a society here, like it or not. People with incorrect data are still allowed to vote, and can influence public opinion and effect municipal policies which can cost everyone money, or could easily cost a harmless family pet it's life over the shape of it's head.

 

[Thor]

Why do people defend race/religion/glock vs 1911/etc on this forum? Even if they are no affiliated with any of them?

Because that's why.

 

[Leo]

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