Do you own a "Blue Gun"

[zoglog]

I didnt know that they were that expensive! At the last 1500 a guy was walking around and offering to buy them from different vendors! I think he bought one from Raven for 20.

 

[TFin04]

However, I think the guys that understand the utility of a blue gun go out and get them and don't wait for a gun show purchase.

Bingo. They are not products of opportunity. They fit a small segment of the market, and for their application, nothing else will do. People don't walk by and say "Oh those are neat, I'll give one a try."

You may sell a few for guys who already own them and want a different (or additional) models, but to sell to the average shooter, no way.

We have some on our table at the 1500 as displays, and guys will point and laugh at them. That immediately cements them into what version of bwframe's signature they are.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

I guess I was thinking of all the other plastic devices around that don't cost nearly that much. All my DVDs and CDs are the same size. All of the caps on Coke bottles are the same size, etc.

I guess when you have a niche, you can charge what the market will pay...

I would encourage you to consider the volume of products sold. DVD cases are produced by the million.

Of people, gun owners are a portion. Of gun owner, handgun owners are a portion. Of handgun owners, people who regularly shoot/train are a fraction. Of those who "train", those who would purchase a replica are an even smaller fraction (30% in this poll).

If Blue Guns were selling 10 million pieces a year, I would probably complain about a $40 price tag. But these guys make an EXACT replica, good enough to fit a kydex holster, and they make them for a reasonably wide selection of firearms, and they sell to a very small market. I'd say $40 is a pretty good deal if you think about it from their side of the business.

Finally, I'd look further into Rhino's suggestion about making one out of wood. I bet at least 75% of the people who would want a blue gun wouldn't bother to try to build it with wood. Then, how many of that remaining 25% would complete the project? Then, how many have a replica that is workable (good enough for holster use)? Again, I'd say $40 is pretty darn affordable, all things considered.

Regards,
Josh

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We have some on our table at the 1500 as displays, and guys will point and laugh at them

Holy cow! Did not know it was that bad.

Geez. There you have it. If you see a guy with a blue gun, you at least know he is serious about training.

 

[TripleTapWarrior]

Great Training Tool - Blue Gun

Blue, Red, Yellow, or whatever colored training guns, are great for teaching in a classroom or on the range.

For some reason, many firearms or tactics instructors don't teach multiple "angles of observation or posture" in their teaching techniques. Although teaching safe zones, or designated shooting directions of fire, or weapons in a safe direction, you still present the firearm to the shooters as if it were real. (Nothing new for our group here).

Hear, See, Do

An old Proverb,

"I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand"

Showing profile angles, while using a safe Blue Gun or others, helps in the overall delivery of your shooting method for tactics training and shooters classes.

And as also stated, teaching weapons retention, muscle memory, drawing, point and shoot, etc., the blue gun helps in the basis of understanding for those who "practice to survive".

Just my nickels worth!

Dan

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Two things:

1. Google can't find any XDm Training or Airsoft replicas.
2. I don't see why people are so afraid of the plastic & steel which their firearms are made out of. It's the bullets which do the damage.

Are people so unsure of themselves that they can't clear the weapon with confidence for use in solo-training exercises? Sure, I understand that force-on-force & grappling training make safe-replicas a necessity (so that all involved can be absolutely certain of the status of the "weapon" at all times). But to have a replica for solo-training seems silly to me. If I cleared the firearm & I haven't let the firearm out of my control...then I know it is still cleared. If I want the weight of a full magazine, I turn the top 2 cartridges around backwards (H&K-style) & remove all other magazines/ammo from the room.

For FoF & other group training...almost any firearm replica would do. Just a simple, generic 1911-ish shape should cut it (or piece of wood, as has been mentioned). I don't see any reason to have an exact replica of all of your handguns...

Ultimately, a firearm is no more deadly/dangerous than industrial machinery. Both can be handled quite safely if you're paying attention.

 

[Wabatuckian]

I will continue training with my REAL firearms. Who wants even an empty pistol pointed at him? It's much easier to ignore muzzle discipline with a fake gun.

I do like fake knives; the blades can be coated with lipstick to show where a cut has been made against the opponent.

Josh

 

[Win52C]

No....

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Are people so unsure of themselves that they can't clear the weapon with confidence for use in solo-training exercises?

We have read and seen too many tragedies. The training culture is full of incidents of people shooting themselves and fellow cops with "cleared" weapons. (Some of the worst catastrophes were at Gunsite. I am thinking of the two guys shooting each other with cleared guns and the USMC sniper who launched a .308 with his cleared M14 through many hotel rooms).

If we follow Rule #1 and "treat all guns as if they are loaded", then the chances of me putting a round through the television as I practice presentations or through the front of my vehicle as I practice seated draws or whatever I am practicing has been reduced to zero.

As I live in a city, my neighbors appreciate my decision.

I dry fire practice but only into a sand barrel in the basement.

Blue guns reduce the chance of unintended bloodshed to zero.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

We have read and seen too many tragedies. The training culture is full of incidents of people shooting themselves and fellow cops with "cleared" weapons. (Some of the worst catastrophes were at Gunsite. I am thinking of the two guys shooting each other with cleared guns and the USMC sniper who launched a .308 with his cleared M14 through many hotel rooms).

If we follow Rule #1 and "treat all guns as if they are loaded", then the chances of me putting a round through the television as I practice presentations or through the front of my vehicle as I practice seated draws or whatever I am practicing has been reduced to zero.

As I live in a city, my neighbors appreciate my decision.

I dry fire practice but only into a sand barrel in the basement.

Blue guns reduce the chance of unintended bloodshed to zero.

I'll go ahead & assume that if I walked out to your garage, I'd see a blue training blade in your saw...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Paco, no, but very funny.

The distinction is that my saw blade is not launched from my saw into directions unwanted, like my neighbor's daughter's bedroom.

 

[mercop]

If you don't have one you need one for every pistol you EDC. Without it there is no way to pressure test your training.- George

 

[jeremy]

If you don't have one you need one for every pistol you EDC. Without it there is no way to pressure test your training.- George

Huh...

So the weapons training in the military I have done fro 20 years doesn't count cause we used real guns...

 

[Balinor]

blue guns

i have "blue" hand guns (plural) and knives also radio and other equipent.
(I dont want to break a dept radio but still need to train with it on my belt.)
I also have "blue" long guns.
use what ever you have to make sure bad bad things dont happen but still can simulate what would really happen.

 

[rhino]

I guess I was thinking of all the other plastic devices around that don't cost nearly that much. All my DVDs and CDs are the same size. All of the caps on Coke bottles are the same size, etc.

I guess when you have a niche, you can charge what the market will pay...

Yeah, I suspect it's one of those "economy of scale," issues too. And the actual polymers/composites are not the same either. The Blue Guns are significantly denser than the orange Blackhawk training replicas, for instance. The latter are less expensive, so if they make your preferred copy, then they're a more economical option.

 

[rhino]

I'm not going to try to reason with anyone who has already decided that a real firearm is acceptable to use in lieu of an inert replica just because they've verified it's unloaded. As Kirk mentioned, too many tragedies have occurred and it's simply not worth the risk. If you can't see that, you're not willing to see that.

There are plenty of times when we use inert replicas specifically because the muzzle will be pointed at someone. One example is when teaching people to use cover and concealment effectively. You can't see if they're using cover/concealment properly unless you're downrange from them looking to see how much of their body is exposed. Whether the students are doing it to each other or if the instructor is the one downrange, it doesn't make any difference. Using a real firearm for that is unacceptable, even if multiple people verify that the gun is unloaded. You gain absolutely nothing from using a real gun and you lose nothing by using an inert replica.

Another situation is retention training and extreme close quarters training. Muzzles not only will be pointed at training partners and instructors, but they will actually make contact with them at times. Using a real gun would be beyond irresponsible.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I'm not going to try to reason with anyone who has already decided that a real firearm is acceptable to use in lieu of an inert replica just because they've verified it's unloaded. As Kirk mentioned, too many tragedies have occurred and it's simply not worth the risk. If you can't see that, you're not willing to see that.

There are plenty of times when we use inert replicas specifically because the muzzle will be pointed at someone. One example is when teaching people to use cover and concealment effectively. You can't see if they're using cover/concealment properly unless you're downrange from them looking to see how much of their body is exposed. Whether the students are doing it to each other or if the instructor is the one downrange, it doesn't make any difference. Using a real firearm for that is unacceptable, even if multiple people verify that the gun is unloaded. You gain absolutely nothing from using a real gun and you lose nothing by using an inert replica.

Another situation is retention training and extreme close quarters training. Muzzles not only will be pointed at training partners and instructors, but they will actually make contact with them at times. Using a real gun would be beyond irresponsible.

Assuming that you're talking about me, please reread my post.

Two things:

1. Google can't find any XDm Training or Airsoft replicas.
2. I don't see why people are so afraid of the plastic & steel which their firearms are made out of. It's the bullets which do the damage.

Are people so unsure of themselves that they can't clear the weapon with confidence for use in ***solo-training exercises***? Sure, I understand that force-on-force & grappling training make safe-replicas a necessity (so that all involved can be absolutely certain of the status of the "weapon" at all times). But to have a replica for solo-training seems silly to me. If I cleared the firearm & I haven't let the firearm out of my control...then I know it is still cleared. If I want the weight of a full magazine, I turn the top 2 cartridges around backwards (H&K-style) & remove all other magazines/ammo from the room.

For FoF & other group training...almost any firearm replica would do. Just a simple, generic 1911-ish shape should cut it (or piece of wood, as has been mentioned). I don't see any reason to have an exact replica of all of your handguns...

Ultimately, a firearm is no more deadly/dangerous than industrial machinery. Both can be handled quite safely if you're paying attention.

If you weren't talking about me...please carry on as you were.

 

[rhino]

If you weren't talking about me...please carry on as you were.

There you go.

 

[buckstopshere]

No but I have been thinking about getting a couple.

 

[mercop]

Huh...

So the weapons training in the military I have done fro 20 years doesn't count cause we used real guns...

Unless the military has changed since I was in the basic pistol training ( and I was an MP) was pretty pathetic. And it is much safer to train tactics and weapon retention with a Blue Gun. If nothing else the fact that you can Dremel down the front sight on your Blue Gun. If not after a few drills your buddy will have bloody hands. - George