Did Law Change? Unreal incident at clinic...

[public servant]

I don't have anger towards the police. I have anger towards incompetent police. I'm sorry your anger towards me doesn't allow you to see the difference.

Most aren't incompetent. Somewhere along the line you've decided to very openly judge all of them by the actions of a very few.

 

[Roadie]

Most aren't incompetent. Somewhere along the line you've decided to very openly judge all of them by the actions of a very few.

You mean kinda like a lot of Cops judge all gun owners and see them as criminals, when statistically the exact opposite is true?

We just had ANOTHER incident reported here on INGO, this time a Cop hassled a citizen for OCing on his own damn property!

SOMEBODY sure as heck is incompetent.

 

[Colts]

Studying the code book only teaches you the black letter. That's why departments need to work with the prosecutor.
If by the code book, you mean the little paperback, it does not have the complete Indiana criminal code. It also contains (last I bothered to look) things like the Flag Desecration Law, which was long ago made moot by a SCOTUS decision.

The bare IC is largely gibberish passed by the legislature (please explain to me what the legislature was smoking when they wrote IC 35-50-2). Without understanding case law as well, one often really does not know the law at all. ESPECIALLY where the law intersects the federal and State constitutions.

Assuming officers do learn the code from the book, where on earth are they getting this no open carry business? It's not in the book, so clearly they're making it up. Problem, only the legislature can make laws, and only the courts can interpret them. The executive, of which the police are a part, execute the laws and that's it.

Legislative - make laws, check
Courts - interpret laws, check
Executive - execute laws; who is responsible for training this branch, i.e. the police, so innocent citizens are not accidently executed?

 

[public servant]

You mean kinda like a lot of Cops judge all gun owners and see them as criminals, when statistically the exact opposite is true?

I don't. But just like some others...you're going to judge me by another's actions?

Hello pot...

 

[Hammerhead]

He didn't say you specifically. You seem to think that any statement against any LEOs is a direct statement towards you. "A lot" does not equal "all" and if you're not one of the "lot" then you should be just as concerned with those who are.

 

[Rookie]

You mean kinda like a lot of Cops judge all gun owners and see them as criminals, when statistically the exact opposite is true?

We just had ANOTHER incident reported here on INGO, this time a Cop hassled a citizen for OCing on his own damn property!

SOMEBODY sure as heck is incompetent.

I missed that thread...

 

[Roadie]

I missed that thread...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._carry_caused_some_problems_for_me_today.html

 

[Denny347]

It's easy enough to generate a table of the most common citizen interactions and the reasons behind those contacts and focus training efforts on the top 10. I'm willing to bet that MWAG ranks at least in the top ten, along with drugs, traffic, etc.

MWAG calls are rare and I work in a rough area. Top laws I deal with every day...Burglary, Theft, Domestic Battery, Battery, Robbery (armed and strong armed), and the most common law I deal with isn't even criminal...residency (100% civil and I have no authority over) but I deal with it every day. Another common civil matter is child custody....UGH. Unless it is an armed robbery, a murder, agg assault, we just don't get MWG calls. The few we do get turn into what? Robberies in progress.

 

[Denny347]

You mean kinda like a lot of Cops judge all gun owners and see them as criminals, when statistically the exact opposite is true?

We just had ANOTHER incident reported here on INGO, this time a Cop hassled a citizen for OCing on his own damn property!

SOMEBODY sure as heck is incompetent.

Can be a by-product of working in the worst areas imaginable.

 

[cobber]

Legislative - make laws, check
Courts - interpret laws, check
Executive - execute laws; who is responsible for training this branch, i.e. the police, so innocent citizens are not accidently executed?

The Executive in this respect is self-regulating, if not well-regulated in all cases. Supposedly there are internal checks. If problems are known and the police don't rectify them, the prosecutor can try to 'help'. Otherwise, the police are regulated by citizen feedback, including tort suits.

Police are generally indemnified in the performance of their duties. Whether this would include enforcing an imaginary law is open to some dispute; the courts of appeal have already ruled that a police stop for an imaginary law is invalid.

This is one reason we need to be careful about too many restrictions on torts, as "reform" can facilitate reckless or illegal behaviors. Even by the police.

My guess is that if the police execute a citizen in the process of enforcing an imaginary law, they get no more protection in criminal or civil court than your average street punk. Having 'good faith' that there was such a law probably wouldn't impress a jury all that much. Furthermore if the officer testified to this lack of training on his part, that would possibly open up a negligence action against the department and the municipality. A big can of worms.

Departments would be well-advised to review their training regimes.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Departments would be well-advised to review their training regimes.

Especially now, with all the newer gun owners since barrys election and the recent change in the state law.......I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the speedway cops still think their old no cc law is valid....

 

[Bill of Rights]

Especially now, with all the newer gun owners since barrys election and the recent change in the state law.......I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the speedway cops still think their old no cc law is valid....

Not likely. They hadn't enforced it in years even before it was invalidated.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[Dirtebiker]

They can detain you if they believe criminal activity was afoot. However, they cannot enforce a law that does not exist.

They CAN and DID!!!!

 

[Dirtebiker]

We don't know what the call to the police actually said. So that might show that the officer was lying, or perhaps he was misinformed. That would be a mistake of fact.

But the police argument with the poster was NOT that he should not wave guns around, which shows even the police knew that was not the case. Otherwise they would have arrested him for brandishing and would have taken witness statements. An examination of the police reports and listening to the call would clear that up.

The fact that Sgt. Schultz carried on and on about CC shows that there was no brandishing report, and that it was probably a 'fib'.

Or else there was such a report and the officers realized it was not true, in which case the person who made the report should have been arrested for False Informing. Which apparently did not happen.

Need to get the reports, depose the officers and the caller (the police will have the number of the person who reported, it's not protected information).

We have no brandishing law in Indiana!

 

[Bill of Rights]

We have no brandishing law in Indiana!

True. They'd probably call it "criminal recklessness with a firearm".
(I'm mobile today so can't quote the cite as easily, sorry.)

IC 35-42-2

Blessings,
Bill

 

[LegatoRedrivers]

 

[cobber]

We have no brandishing law in Indiana!

.

 

[b0r0b]

Pulled over last night around midnight by the cop that I first spoke with during the "raid". (the one that reminded me we were inside and to take my glasses off).

I was with my brother heading to the pub and I passed a cop sitting in a school parking lot. I then passed 2 more cruisers 3 blocks up the road at a red light. We stopped at the pub, I took my keys out of the ignition and opened my door slightly and got lit up with the cherries and berries. I didn't get a chance to look but I'm sure it was all 3 cruisers, as 3 officers were standing outside my car

The cop approached my window and signaled for me to roll it down, so i pushed the door a little and said my keys are already out of the ignition so I'll just slowly step out. I said ahh, you remember me from the other night? and he looked at me funny so I said "the clinic?" and he goes ah yeah. You're tint is too dark on your car. You have your license on you?

So I hand him my license and he goes back to his car and comes back and goes "alright bud have a good night"....what..the..****?

RPD is currently looking for a car identical to mine that fled from an officer a few weeks ago, but I am curious as to why I didn't get the ticket? :P

 

[jmiller676]

Pulled over last night around midnight by the cop that I first spoke with during the "raid". (the one that reminded me we were inside and to take my glasses off).

I was with my brother heading to the pub and I passed a cop sitting in a school parking lot. I then passed 2 more cruisers 3 blocks up the road at a red light. We stopped at the pub, I took my keys out of the ignition and opened my door slightly and got lit up with the cherries and berries. I didn't get a chance to look but I'm sure it was all 3 cruisers, as 3 officers were standing outside my car

The cop approached my window and signaled for me to roll it down, so i pushed the door a little and said my keys are already out of the ignition so I'll just slowly step out. I said ahh, you remember me from the other night? and he looked at me funny so I said "the clinic?" and he goes ah yeah. You're tint is too dark on your car. You have your license on you?

So I hand him my license and he goes back to his car and comes back and goes "alright bud have a good night"....what..the..****?

RPD is currently looking for a car identical to mine that fled from an officer a few weeks ago, but I am curious as to why I didn't get the ticket? :P

Too bad you weren't OCing

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Hate to say it but I will. You could be a target now. This boob doesn't sound like retaliation would be unheard of.