Death Threats, police/legal opinions? Help

[edporch]

My wife has two rental houses next door to each other in a small NW Indiana town.
These are both month to month rentals.


One of the tenants WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION began demolishing and replacing parts of the house.
He's been told repeatedly to stop by the landlord but he refuses.

My wife is trying to get eviction proceedings going against him

Though 80 years old, he's been checked and declared competent.

It escalated last week to where he's trying to buy a gun and threatens to shoot people.
(I confirmed with the local gun shop that he DID try to buy a gun, but didn't have proper ID so was turned down)

He's taken to threatening the life of the other tenant next door, and did so again just today.

The Police have been called down there at least THREE TIMES over his threats.

YET THE POLICE REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT HIS DEATH THREATS.

QUESTION:
HOW can somebody make repeated death threats to somebody, and even try to buy gun, and this man is not arrested?

 

[Hogwylde]

Because police can't do anything until an actual crime has been committed. They enforce laws after they've been broken, not prevent crimes before they happen.

 

[snorko]

Document everything. Start eviction proceedings immediately and maybe have the wife file for a protective order.

 

[stephen87]

Minority Report was a movie.


Best option would be to try and get a restraining order for a threat of violence.

 

[jd4320t]

A death threat isn't a crime?

 

[Hogwylde]

A death threat isn't a crime?

Not unless the cop actually hears it. It's your word against his.

 

[HoughMade]

All I can say is contact the prosecutor's officer directly and speak with them. Keep contacting the police and get a report made when threats are made. Don't "try to get eviction proceedings started." Get them started.

 

[mrjarrell]

Unlike a few other states terroristic threatening is not a crime in Indiana. I think Stephen has the right of it. Get a restraining order and then evict the person.

 

[HoughMade]

Looks like a probably level 6 felony to me if the death threats are retaliation for a prior lawful act (eviction? telling him to not violate the lease?). Do not take this lightly!

(a) A person who communicates a threat to another person, with the intent:

(1) that the other person engage in conduct against the other person's will;
(2) that the other person be placed in fear of retaliation for a prior lawful act; or
(3) of:
(A) causing:
(i) a dwelling, a building, or other structure; or
(ii) a vehicle;
to be evacuated; or
(B) interfering with the occupancy of:
(i) a dwelling, building, or other structure; or
(ii) a vehicle;
commits intimidation, a Class A misdemeanor.

(b) However, the offense is a:

(1) Level 6 felony if:

(A) the threat is to commit a forcible felony;
(B) the person to whom the threat is communicated:
(i) is a law enforcement officer;
(ii) is a witness (or the spouse or child of a witness) in any pending criminal proceeding against the person making the threat;
(iii) is an employee of a school or school corporation;
(iv) is a community policing volunteer;
(v) is an employee of a court;
(vi) is an employee of a probation department;
(vii) is an employee of a community corrections program;
(viii) is an employee of a hospital, church, or religious organization; or
(ix) is a person that owns a building or structure that is open to the public or is an employee of the person;

and, except as provided in item (ii), the threat is communicated to the person because of the occupation, profession, employment status, or ownership status of the person as described in items (i) through (ix) or based on an act taken by the person within the scope of the occupation, profession, employment status, or ownership status of the person;

(C) the person has a prior unrelated conviction for an offense under this section concerning the same victim; or

(D) the threat is communicated using property, including electronic equipment or systems, of a school corporation or other governmental entity; and

(2) Level 5 felony if:

(A) while committing it, the person draws or uses a deadly weapon; or
(B) the person to whom the threat is communicated:
(i) is a judge or bailiff of any court; or
(ii) is a prosecuting attorney or a deputy prosecuting attorney.

(c) "Communicates" includes posting a message electronically, including on a social networking web site (as defined in IC 35-42-4-12(d)).

(d) "Threat" means an expression, by words or action, of an intention to:

(1) unlawfully injure the person threatened or another person, or damage property;
(2) unlawfully subject a person to physical confinement or restraint;
(3) commit a crime;
(4) unlawfully withhold official action, or cause such withholding;
(5) unlawfully withhold testimony or information with respect to another person's legal claim or defense, except for a reasonable claim for witness fees or expenses;
(6) expose the person threatened to hatred, contempt, disgrace, or ridicule;
(7) falsely harm the credit or business reputation of the person threatened; or
(8) cause the evacuation of a dwelling, a building, another structure, or a vehicle.

Burns Ind. Code Ann. § 35-45-2-1

 

[Denny347]

Looks like a probably level 6 felony to me if the death threats are retaliation for a prior lawful act (eviction? telling him to not violate the lease?). Do not take this lightly!

I guess it hinges on what EXACTLY he said. I have had many people tell me that someone threatened their live but when I asked about the exact wording they told me that the threat was ,"I'm going to get you." or "You'll be sorry." or similar. From what I've been told by our detectives, the threat has to be specific.

 

[indiucky]

What mrjarrell, snorko, and hough said.....Start documenting now.....

 

[HoughMade]

I guess it hinges on what EXACTLY he said. I have had many people tell me that someone threatened their live but when I asked about the exact wording they told me that the threat was ,"I'm going to get you." or "You'll be sorry." or similar. From what I've been told by our detectives, the threat has to be specific.

Agreed. I'm taking the "threatened to shoot people" at face value. Simply making a threat is not a crime, but a threat in conjunction with the items set forth in the statute are, and if it is "intimidation", it bumps up to a Level 6 felony because of the threat of a forcible felony.

 

[MacAttack]

In addition to documenting, record everything. Indiana is a one party state, so anything can be recorded so long as one party knows that the recording is taking place. May not help a lot with the police, but I would imagine a recording of the old dude threatening to murder someone might help.

 

[Denny347]

Might also contact APS (Adult Protective Services), he might be in need of services and a visit.

 

[oldpink]

Your story sounds quite similar to mine from fifteen years ago.
At that time, I was living in a nice working class neighborhood in New Castle called Sunnyside, where most everyone was nice to each other, even though we mostly kept to ourselves.
However, there was one glaring exception two doors to the south of us on our side of the street: a house full of drug dealing thugs by the name of Ludlum
I say drug dealing because it was a daily event to see a different car parked in front of their house for an hour or two, with loud music inside, then the person would leave, quickly followed by another, then another, then another.
I don't recall ever seeing so many different cars pulled up in front of a private residence in my life, and it was obvious even to square old me, who never even took a single hit off of a doobie, that there was some heavy stuff going on there.
Also, just about every few weeks, in the middle of the night we would see several squad cars pulled up in front of their house with their rollers flashing away.
On another notable occasion, the woman of the house got into a shouting and screaming argument, storming out the door, jumping in her car, then reversing and slamming into his truck, which of course unleashed a fusillade of even louder screaming and cussing in the wee hours.
On another occasion when we were away from home -- recounted to me after the fact by our elderly neighbor to the north -- some guy actually shot through the large window on the east side of the house from the street.
I carried my sidearm all the time, even while inside my own house, and everyone in the neighborhood was getting increasingly on edge.
On one occasion, when I found my passenger side window was broken (I believed it was by a rock, but I later figured out it was from an aerosol can that exploded from the heat), I had a conversation with the city cop who took down my report about them, broaching the subject by simply jerking my thumb in the direction of their house and saying I liked everyone in the area except "those people."
The cop glanced over at the house and immediately said: 'Oh yeah, the Ludlums. Yeah, we have to make runs to that place all the time. Definitely not a good bunch there.'
Anyway, the landlord renting to these hoodlums was a very prominent man who owned lots of different houses and other real estate in the area.
It just so happened that my then living wife's dad knew said prominent man very well, since my then FIL was an insurance agent who regularly dealt with him.
Knowing this, we finally took action by talking to my FIL about all the ridiculous behavior, asking if he could tell the landlord (prominent man with all that real estate) because he was not living in the area, and thus unaware of what was going on in his house.
Well, my family and I went on a short trip one morning, returning in the afternoon, just in time to see the landlord actually going to each of the houses in our neighboorhood, knocking on the doors and going inside to have conversations with the people.
It didn't take much guesswork to figure out exactly what those conversations were about, and when we saw him walking to another house when we were just returning home from our trip, he glanced our way and just nodded knowingly.
A week later, the FIL told us that the landlord had gotten more than just an earful about the shenanigans from the Ludlums, and he had gone directly to them, telling them that they had two choices: either leave right now and he would refund whatever rent they had paid in advance, or wait until their rental agreement was up again in October and leave at that time.
The hoodlums/Ludlums chose the latter, waiting until October, the longest three months I ever waited out.
Less than six months after these hoodlums left, we saw an article in the Muncie Star that they had been arrested for kidnapping.

My advice would be to get as many of the neighbors as possible to corroborate what's going on with this bozo and use it to force an eviction.
Use every tool at your disposal to send him packing.

 

[HoughMade]

Might also contact APS (Adult Protective Services), he might be in need of services and a visit.

That's sound advice.

 

[stephen87]

Looks like a probably level 6 felony to me if the death threats are retaliation for a prior lawful act (eviction? telling him to not violate the lease?). Do not take this lightly!

The problem then becomes proving it. As was said earlier, he said/she said issues here.

 

[HoughMade]

The problem then becomes proving it. As was said earlier, he said/she said issues here.

Are we in court? Talk to the prosecutor. That's their job. You don't not report a crime because you think a prosecutor may have proof problems in a year. Juries choose to believe one person and not another person every day. "He said/she said" has sent plenty of people to prison.

The ultimate goal here isn't really even a conviction. It's to be rid of the problem. Make life difficult for the troublemaker, no matter the age. He may choose to leave to get away from the hassle- win. If not, you make a record.

 

[Denny347]

Are we in court? Talk to the prosecutor. That's their job. You don't not report a crime because you think a prosecutor may have proof problems in a year. Juries choose to believe one person and not another person every day. "He said/she said" has sent plenty of people to prison.

The ultimate goal here isn't really even a conviction. It's to be rid of the problem. Make life difficult for the troublemaker, no matter the age. He may choose to leave to get away from the hassle- win. If not, you make a record.

I wished it was like that here.