Criteria for a new carry gun.

[Jeremy1066]

Glock 26:10+1 (11 or 12+1 with Pearce extension)
1.18" overall width
All black
3.5" barrel
No manual safety

 

[ZX-14R]

Some Kel-tecs do have reliability issues. Others are great. My pf-9 has about 600 rounds through it over 2 years. No Ftf/ Fte etc. If you go this route, put at least 250 rounds through it to make sure its a good one. Then run 50-100 rounds of your carry ammo too just to be positive.

I am sure some of their firearms run okay otherwise they would be out of business. I was just saying in no way are they a match for a Glock or M&P in terms of quality and reliability.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Just a heads up, a kel tec does not have anywhere near the quality or reliability of an M&P in my experience and opinion.

If KelTec wasn't a decent gun, they would most certainly be out of business. Their firearms are inexpensive and work well. Their customer service is top notch. Their guns sometimes tend to be a bit picky with ammo, but other than that, I trust my life with both of mine daily.

Glock 19 Gen4
Smith and Wesson M&P 9c
Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm
Glock 26 Gen4
Kahr PM9
Kahr CW9
Kahr CM9
Sig Sauer P938

This is a list of firearms that I have owned (and/or) shot extensively, and would (and do) trust my life to every single day.

Do any of these meet the requirements in the OP ?

Just curious

Glock 26:10+1 (11 or 12+1 with Pearce extension)
1.18" overall width
All black
3.5" barrel
No manual safety

This could be another contender as well (based on the criteria in the OP) but the overall width might be too much (based on his criteria)

I am sure some of their firearms run okay otherwise they would be out of business. I was just saying in no way are they a match for a Glock or M&P in terms of quality and reliability.

Mine has almost 500 flawless rounds through it since about june. I've used several different types of ammo and it eats anything I've fed to it so far. Glock and M&P do not fit within the OP's criteria, do they ?

For the record, I'm not knocking any of the manufacturers.. just tossing out what I use for EDC that fits within what the OP was looking for.

Also, FWIW, the Full Size M&P 9 is on my list of 'to get' guns as my next carry piece (and it's on there for a reason. I won't deny it)

 

[jgreiner]

I'm looking for a new carry gun and can't seem to find anything that meets my criteria. Maybe you guys can point me in the right direction.

Here's the list:

• 3.5-3.6" Barrel
• Chambered in 9mm
• Single stack or < 1" OAW
• ~12 Round Capacity (10 minimum)
• No two-tone. All black
• Enough grip for my pinky but no more. (3.125-3.25")
• Preferrably DAO or DA/SA. No mechanical safety

The PF-9 and LC-9 are out. They are too small. I have a Sig P250 but the SC frame is too wide and the grip too short. I'm thinking a smaller Compact frame pistol but I don't have a broad knowledge on what is out there.

Your suggestions are much appreciated.

S&W MP 9c. Meets or exceeds all areas defined. Shield might also be an option.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Just a heads up, a kel tec does not have anywhere near the quality or reliability of an M&P in my experience and opinion.

Some Kel-tecs do have reliability issues. Others are great. My pf-9 has about 600 rounds through it over 2 years. No Ftf/ Fte etc. If you go this route, put at least 250 rounds through it to make sure its a good one. Then run 50-100 rounds of your carry ammo too just to be positive.

I carried a P11 for a couple years before I went smaller with a
Beretta Nano. I wanted the single stack and the trigger pull was a bit better on the Nano, but the P11 is highly reliable. Never had an issue with mine and I still with it out in the back forty.

 

[iSaladbar]

I would go with a m&p shield 9, or a m&p compact 9. They are very reliable. I believe the shield has an 8+1 capacity and the compact is 12+1. (Compact is doublestacked hence why it is wider) The shield is right at 1'' thick. both great guns and reliable and have a very controllable recoil.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Ruger SR9C or the M&P as mentioned above.

 

[chezuki]

I am sure some of their firearms run okay otherwise they would be out of business. I was just saying in no way are they a match for a Glock or M&P in terms of quality and reliability.

Hmm... I wonder why we never open these threads to find someone trying to convince us how their Glock/XD/M&P is just as good as a keltec...

 

[ZX-14R]

Hmm... I wonder why we never open these threads to find someone trying to convince us how their Glock/XD/M&P is just as good as a keltec...

Bingo


I am pretty sure that if Kel-tec was on the same level as Glock/M&P/XD that I would have met at least one member of the military or law enforcement that carries one as a primary duty weapon.

I can't find a single law enforcement agency using or approving of them either...

I would like to see how Kel-tecs hold up after 10,000-20,000 rounds or more. Has anyone done this?

 

[ZX-14R]

If KelTec wasn't a decent gun, they would most certainly be out of business. Their firearms are inexpensive and work well. Their customer service is top notch. Their guns sometimes tend to be a bit picky with ammo, but other than that, I trust my life with both of mine daily.

That is good to hear you have had a good experience with them. There are examples of gun companies still in existence that produce total garbage (ie -Diamondback).

Their guns are inexpensive, they are inexpensive because they do not put the level of design, engineering or materials into their firearms. From the Kel-Tecs I have seen personally break, I wouldn't even consider trusting one with my life.

Do any of these meet the requirements in the OP ?

Just curious

No gun, as I said before, meets all of the criteria set by the OP. The 9c, Shield, and G26 come closest. He also stated that he did not have a broad knowledge of what is out there currently.

Mine has almost 500 flawless rounds through it since about june. I've used several different types of ammo and it eats anything I've fed to it so far.

500 rounds? Well thats a start, and I am glad you have had a good experience so far, but that isn't a very tested gun yet. Do you have any Kel-Tec's over 5,000 rounds?

 

[daddymikey1975]

Based on the criteria in the OP, the P11 is another contender.

Is that to say the the P11 is the "best gun" ?

Any thing that's 'better than" is comparative. For example "how are you doing today? is a general question, but to effect a proper answer, one must compare themselves to another person. On emight be doing really if they have a job, but really crappy if unemployed.. see how a person's "day" is comparative ?

Same things applies to a gun. Is a P11 better than a Remington 870 ? If those are the only two options, it's akin to comparing apples to oranges. What's the purpose for the comparison? Why make certain recommendations ? I recommended the P11 to the OP simply because it's a gun that I carry, that also happens to fall within the criteria he specified for a specific purpose. It's semantics to argue about how good the P11 is vs Glock, vs S&W. I never said the other offerings were poor guns in comparison. I made the argument that the P11 DOES fall within the criteria set by the OP (and evidently he has a specific purpose in mind).

Nothing more, nothing less. (is this parallel to an OC/CC debate ?)

ETA: My first gun purchase was in Feb of this year. Neither of the 2 Kel Tec pistols that I own have been in my possession long enough to shoot 10k rounds through them. There are other Kel Tec owners that have had luck but I am not one of them.

 

[cmj]

This thread is about finding a pistol that meets a certain criteria. We have a G19 and G27 sitting in the safe, but what good does that do me if I can't find a comfortable way to carry them? I don't have a specific price point for buying this pistol. It just so happens that the one that most fits my requirements is a Kel-Tec. It will be ran through the same procedures as any other new EDC.. I will put lead through it for as long as it takes to prove to me it will be a reliable weapon. If that time doesn't come, I will move on and find something else. These are the same steps I would take with ANY gun, regardless of price or opinion.

I understand your point ZX-14R, I still haven't decided on anything yet.. I haven't handled an M&P or the Kahr that I listed were possibilities.. But don't worry your little noggin, I wont rely on anything that I'm not 100% sure about..

 

[Birds Away]

Wow! Um, ok.

 

[awilson82]

Bersa BP9CC meets all requirements but capacity and is only off by one from your minimum.

 

[ZX-14R]

Based on the criteria in the OP, the P11 is another contender.

Is that to say the the P11 is the "best gun" ?

Any thing that's 'better than" is comparative. For example "how are you doing today? is a general question, but to effect a proper answer, one must compare themselves to another person. On emight be doing really if they have a job, but really crappy if unemployed.. see how a person's "day" is comparative ?

Same things applies to a gun. Is a P11 better than a Remington 870 ? If those are the only two options, it's akin to comparing apples to oranges. What's the purpose for the comparison? Why make certain recommendations ? I recommended the P11 to the OP simply because it's a gun that I carry, that also happens to fall within the criteria he specified for a specific purpose. It's semantics to argue about how good the P11 is vs Glock, vs S&W. I never said the other offerings were poor guns in comparison. I made the argument that the P11 DOES fall within the criteria set by the OP (and evidently he has a specific purpose in mind).

Nothing more, nothing less. (is this parallel to an OC/CC debate ?)

ETA: My first gun purchase was in Feb of this year. Neither of the 2 Kel Tec pistols that I own have been in my possession long enough to shoot 10k rounds through them. There are other Kel Tec owners that have had luck but I am not one of them.

 

[dross]

Walther PPS is pretty close to your criteria.

 

[cmj]

Well I went to the LGS tonight and fondled some guns.. A Bersa Thunder UCompact, and the BPCC.. The Beretta Nano, M&P9c, and XDs (just for giggles). I also revisited the Glock 26.. Nothing compared to the weight / size / capacity of the Kel-Tec.. BudsGunShop has a great price on it, so I went ahead and ordered it in.. I'll write up how it shoots, how it fails, and how it feels in a week or so..

I apologize for not finding a higher end weapon that 'fit' how I want to carry.. But I would rather carry something that I find reliable, and that I am WILLING to carry every day than something uncomfortable that I might go without. If the P-11 turns out to be as rickety and unreliable as the worst reviews, I'll be the first to say I was wrong.. But if it turns out to be a great shooter that eats up all ammo and is great for conceal like the other half of the reviews, then I'll be happy as a clam!

 

[Giddaltti]

I've been doing the same, and the Glock 27, is making it's way to the top of the list. While I'm looking more for a better feel and mag capacity first, the grip on the 27 is not as wide an the mags do gave a pinky extention. The ability to add an extended mag, which is what I just learned you can add, is a huge benefit, and the ability to change from a .40 to a 9mm has me at the point of sold! Why yours is in the safe makes me wonder? Hope to have one in mine too, actually next to my side, I've out grown my XD .40.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Well I went to the LGS tonight and fondled some guns.. A Bersa Thunder UCompact, and the BPCC.. The Beretta Nano, M&P9c, and XDs (just for giggles). I also revisited the Glock 26.. Nothing compared to the weight / size / capacity of the Kel-Tec.. BudsGunShop has a great price on it, so I went ahead and ordered it in.. I'll write up how it shoots, how it fails, and how it feels in a week or so..

I apologize for not finding a higher end weapon that 'fit' how I want to carry.. But I would rather carry something that I find reliable, and that I am WILLING to carry every day than something uncomfortable that I might go without. If the P-11 turns out to be as rickety and unreliable as the worst reviews, I'll be the first to say I was wrong.. But if it turns out to be a great shooter that eats up all ammo and is great for conceal like the other half of the reviews, then I'll be happy as a clam!

You will either love it or hate it. The trigger pull is 8.5lb DAO and is very heavy if you're used to shooting something else. Might take a bit of getting used to.

Some excellent resources for you (if you're interested):
P-11 & P-40 - KTOG - Kel Tec Owners Group Forum

Here's some EXCELLENT technical and how-to for anything KelTec (again, if you're interested):
Kel-Tec Index

 

[esrice]

I apologize for not finding a higher end weapon that 'fit' how I want to carry..

Don't apologize, just test it out and report back. I find that nothing shows a gun's real fighting potential like a level 1 defensive pistol course. If you're just as happy with it after an 8 hour course of drawing, shooting, and malf clearing, then I'd say its g2g.