Could you have stopped the evil?

[Sylvain]

More importantly, how many of you threw more TQ’s and gauze in your med kits this morning? I added two more Combat Gauze’s, and another handful of Z-fold gauze to my kit, as well as 3 more 4” Izzy’s .

Medical stuff is probably the most important in your EDC when it comes to dealing with the aftermath of a mass shooting.

Action beats reaction.Ever if you're armed with a gun and are a great shot other people will get shot before you can draw.

 

[jsharmon7]

Interesting discussion. First thing, get some realistic force training rather than relying on practice on a 180 degree range. The first time I did force-on-force with sim rounds I just started spraying and praying, and I knew full well I wasn’t going to die. More practice with sim rounds and hearing blanks being fired in a building has definitely helped. It’s still no comparison to actual combat I’m sure, but it gave me some confidence and stress inoculation at least.

Second, as Kut mentioned, you have to prioritize before something like this happens. If your handgun is for the defense of yourself and your family only, then get the heck out of Dodge. If you decide to help the innocent strangers, then accept that you’ll have to make yourself a target to do that. Either way, don’t want until the rounds are going off to decide. Can you take down a determined shooter with an AK? Maybe. Can you save lives by delaying him until the good guys with rifles come? Absolutely.

 

[bwframe]

Bet you've trained FoF...

I'll bet he has too...

I've also seen him make that 50 yard shot, in multiples, on the timer. rhino does also, consistently.

The 50 yard shot with EDC is doable. There are lots of folks who can. Hardly anyone that doesn't include the 50 yards in their regular practice can though.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

. Realize that ANY engagement of a rifleman with a pistol is a losing battle and the odds are NOT in your favor, regardless of the distance. Say your prayers and get to work.

This!

Close the distance , most of us are walking around with pistols. Damn how good you are at the 50 yard line.

You're going to get shot, it's gonna suck balls and you might die, get over that.

Know that your actions will save untold lives and die with honor and as much dignity you can muster.

If you live, awesome! Now get to saving the ones you can.

 

[Brad69]

IME
You have a good chance a person will break and run if advanced on, it’s quite unnerving to have a person running at you attempting to kill you. In addition to mindset a person has to honest with your personal training level and physical abilities. You will default to your level of training it this has proven to be true several times personally.

The effect of pounding heart, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion and other effects are real and a person needs to train under stress to understand how to reduce the physical challenges. This effects not only marksmanship but your thought process I did some stupid s&#t and lived while being engaged because of luck and the protection of my friends.

Once you process the OODA and decided on a COA execute with extreme prejudice, do not hesitate you have decided to commit to the fight.
Violence of Action is a term not used much in the civilian training side Speed, Strength, Aggressiveness you are going to kill or be killed no middle ground no thought, no concern for human life end the fight as fast as possible or die trying.

That being said some people will not mix it up with another person it’s just how it is, it’s not in everyone to hurt other people. Training may help but some people have a strong sense of self preservation, that person may fight in self defense but not attack forcefully. I am certain some of the LEO’s on INGO have witnessed guys that don’t wanna get in the fight. FOF training is awesome for CQB but is out of reach for many if you do get the chance do it you will learn a lot about yourself.

I have trained with many fine people here on INGO some as the Instructors some as students from all walks of life.
Training is key if you think that a few rounds and a square range and no training is ok I say you are lying to yourself.
Same with the equipment a better weapon is nice but how many rounds have you shot this month?

So if you don’t train get out there and get some training it’s not that expensive for the local classes heck some of them are stupid cheap like $150 for a full day with a national level Instructors. I have yet to attend a class that I didn’t pick up something I have shot moving targets, sitting, supine, left, right, to the rear in all weather conditions in local classes. So if your serious about stepping into the arena be honest with your ability and get some training and continue training.

BTW
If you carry a .380 or something you won’t take too a training class might wanna rethink that in today’s world just saying?

 

[dsol]

If I am with my family, I am not running towards the gunfire. I am getting them the hell to safety and covering their asses. I am going down before any of them if humanly possible. Alone, I hope I still am brave enough to head towards the mess, try to help anyone I can and if the opportunity arises, put a stop to the shooter.

 

[Twangbanger]

Exactly, FoF training helps to dispel any silly notions of what you can and can’t accomplish under stress. 50 yards is 75 feet 30 of that can be covered in under 2 seconds. If you can’t make the big shot close the distance and engage from a closer position. Use of cover and concealment may slow that 2 seconds to a few seconds or more, but can giv you the opportunity for a well placed shot.

50 yards is not 75 feet.

 

[Alpo]

New math. There's a thread on that.

 

[Vigilant]

50 yards is not 75 feet.

I can’t math! The premise remains, close the gap and get to work. Cardio, you’ll need it.

 

[Leadeye]

Suppressing fire works. Most all of these shooters are going to be distracted by returning fire regardless of accuracy, and I think that's going to limit the casualties.

 

[nakinate]

Suppressing fire works. Most all of these shooters are going to be distracted by returning fire regardless of accuracy, and I think that's going to limit the casualties.

Which is a great reason to carry a spare mag if you don’t already.

 

[Leadeye]

I don't follow any of these shootings, details are mainly just sad and unfortunate. One thing that did get my attention at the garlic festival was that the police there started shooting back quickly. These crazy people aren't trained soldiers, when the bullets come their way it's going to take longer to get past the normal freeze up and sort out where the fire is coming from.

 

[Snapdragon]

This is making the rounds on Facebook. I don't normally step into the gun rights/control fray on FB as it is my happy place and I have friends on both sides, but I shared it. I don't know the OP, but he makes some good points.

"Michael Bane18 hrs
Dammit, how many times do we have to say this?
1) Be armed all the time! This isn't a game played only on Tuesdays and Thursday. ALL THE TIME! The universe doesn't care whether today is the day you decided to leave the gun at home so you could wear your comfy shorts.
2) YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! Police response time was excellent -- 6 minutes -- but 20 people still died. You will decide in that 6 minutes whether you and yours live or die. You...only you.
3) Have a damned plan...ANY plan! Where might the threat come from? Where are the exits? Where is cover? Concealment? Additional weapons? A quick plan when you step into a new place takes seconds, SECONDS!
4) Where is your spouse or your kids? Did they head out on their own? Where? Do they have a place to meet you? HAVE YOU TALKED TO THEM ABOUT THE UNTHINKABLE?
5) Carry medical gear! Don't get all wound around the axle about which tourniquet to,choose -- HAVE ONE! And have the knowledge to SAVE LIVES!
6) If it sounds like a gun, IT'S A GUN! It's not fireworks; it's not a car backfiring; it's not someone dropping a big tin box -- it is gunfire! Act accordingly! Every single second you hesitate brings you -- and your family -- closer to death.
7) "Be without fear in the face of your enemies." None of us who do this, who prepare people for the worst day of their lives, can guarantee those people will get home. I can't save you, although God knows I would if I could. Remember that when you put that gun on in the morning, you are swearing an oath. Honor it."

 

[Twangbanger]

This is making the rounds on Facebook. I don't normally step into the gun rights/control fray on FB as it is my happy place and I have friends on both sides, but I shared it. I don't know the OP, but he makes some good points.

"Michael Bane18 hrs
Dammit, how many times do we have to say this?
1) Be armed all the time! This isn't a game played only on Tuesdays and Thursday. ALL THE TIME! The universe doesn't care whether today is the day you decided to leave the gun at home so you could wear your comfy shorts.
2) YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! Police response time was excellent -- 6 minutes -- but 20 people still died. You will decide in that 6 minutes whether you and yours live or die. You...only you.
3) Have a damned plan...ANY plan! Where might the threat come from? Where are the exits? Where is cover? Concealment? Additional weapons? A quick plan when you step into a new place takes seconds, SECONDS!
4) Where is your spouse or your kids? Did they head out on their own? Where? Do they have a place to meet you? HAVE YOU TALKED TO THEM ABOUT THE UNTHINKABLE?
5) Carry medical gear! Don't get all wound around the axle about which tourniquet to,choose -- HAVE ONE! And have the knowledge to SAVE LIVES!
6) If it sounds like a gun, IT'S A GUN! It's not fireworks; it's not a car backfiring; it's not someone dropping a big tin box -- it is gunfire! Act accordingly! Every single second you hesitate brings you -- and your family -- closer to death.
7) "Be without fear in the face of your enemies." None of us who do this, who prepare people for the worst day of their lives, can guarantee those people will get home. I can't save you, although God knows I would if I could. Remember that when you put that gun on in the morning, you are swearing an oath. Honor it."

I don't know you, but thank you. It is analogous to gay people "coming out." The only way people in the middle are ever going to get an alternative, positive image of firearms ownership is if people like us are willing to represent ourselves in our "happy places" where people usually don't discuss politics. It's not "politics." It's who you are, and it's never offensive to simply represent who you actually are. "I'm so-and-so. You know me. I own and carry guns. I'd be happy to share my thoughts about it, if you were interested." Sometimes that's all it takes. I have often seen this play out, where the anti- or "on the fence" person suddenly finds out they're actually surrounded by people who own guns. And maybe carry them. It is an eye opener.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I'm a firm maybe.

 

[actaeon277]

I can make that shot. I plan for it to be closer than 50 yards. I am not going concede to anyone just because they have a rifle and I dont. If I am ever in the situation and fail. It will be in a pile of brass. You can all run me down after the fact for being inadequate.

Carry nation needs to man up and get better.

 

[Snapdragon]

I don't know you, but thank you. It is analogous to gay people "coming out." The only way people in the middle are ever going to get an alternative, positive image of firearms ownership is if people like us are willing to represent ourselves in our "happy places" where people usually don't discuss politics. It's not "politics." It's who you are, and it's never offensive to simply represent who you actually are. "I'm so-and-so. You know me. I own and carry guns. I'd be happy to share my thoughts about it, if you were interested." Sometimes that's all it takes. I have often seen this play out, where the anti- or "on the fence" person suddenly finds out they're actually surrounded by people who own guns. And maybe carry them. It is an eye opener.

Thank you. My gun-hating friends know I have guns, but it is my nature to avoid confrontation, so I don't usually rub it in their faces. However, today, I found it necessary to say on several occasions that these shootings have nothing to do with gun availability and everything to do with teaching our children that it is wrong to hurt people.

 

[churchmouse]

"50 yards was just a reference point for accuracy people"
It is not the point at which I thought we should engage. Why is every one stuck at 50 yards. Maybe we can get past this.

 

[Sigblitz]

I'm a firm maybe.

 

[Vigilant]

"50 yards was just a reference point for accuracy people"
It is not the point at which I thought we should engage. Why is every one stuck at 50 yards. Maybe we can get past this.

I don’t think we are necessarily stuck on 50 yards, but most of this happened in a parking lot, a big one, and that brings up the can you make that shot.