Coronovirus IV

[nonobaddog]

The ANOVA was based on hospitalizations, not infection, etc.

Nah. Hospitalization was simply an inclusion criteria not a variable.
The other two inclusion criteria were respiratory failure and a positive SARS-CoV-2 test.

Their variables were blood type of course and severity class, which was determined by the maximum level of respiratory assist given - supplemental oxygen therapy only or noninvasive ventilatory support or invasive ventilatory support or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation.

I think I see what they are saying now. Since all of their study group patients, excluding control patients, were hospitalized and already had severe disease defined as respiratory failure, their study design was not looking at odds of infection or odds of severe illness. All their patients were already infected and severely ill.

Bottom line - Once they are severely ill - Type A seems to get more severe severity and Type O seems to get less severe severity.

The article about the paper was just poorly written.

 

[Ziggidy]

My wife got scheduled for a colonoscopy in about a month. She was told she has to get a covid test before she has it. WTF?

And if she is positive? What then?

 

[Ziggidy]

Their variables were blood type of course and severity class, which was determined by the maximum level of respiratory assist given - supplemental oxygen therapy only or noninvasive ventilatory support or invasive ventilatory support or extracorporeal membrane oxygenation.

I am not challenging the study, but pretty much all initial data had a major question mark next to it. I add that there is a MAJOR difference between supplemental O2 and extracorporeal oxygenation (and everything in between) when treating respiratory complications. They already had the disease and some say the treatment of the disease impacted the the progression into full blown ARDS. My point with this is how do you determine an outcome when you do not know for certain if in fact the china flu was responsible for the ARDS? Are blood types more prominent in certain countries (Italy is A)? Did Italy manage their patients differently than other areas of the world?

My point is that IMO, the data to determine blood type resistance (or whatever) cannot be made; at least this soon. Too many variables. Premature diagnosis of respiratory failure, delayed diagnosis, ventilator induced ARDS, variable between countries in the management of patients and so on. If Italy is seen as one that had the most deaths and the primary blood type in Italy is "A".......well?

It just does not compute in my head.....maybe because it's too early for me?

 

[Phase2]

Unfortunately, you can create similar wheels for Fauchi and WHO:

 

[semperfi211]

And if she is positive? What then?

That I do not know. They didn't say.

 

[nonobaddog]

I am not challenging the study, but pretty much all initial data had a major question mark next to it. I add that there is a MAJOR difference between supplemental O2 and extracorporeal oxygenation (and everything in between) when treating respiratory complications. They already had the disease and some say the treatment of the disease impacted the the progression into full blown ARDS. My point with this is how do you determine an outcome when you do not know for certain if in fact the china flu was responsible for the ARDS? Are blood types more prominent in certain countries (Italy is A)? Did Italy manage their patients differently than other areas of the world?

My point is that IMO, the data to determine blood type resistance (or whatever) cannot be made; at least this soon. Too many variables. Premature diagnosis of respiratory failure, delayed diagnosis, ventilator induced ARDS, variable between countries in the management of patients and so on. If Italy is seen as one that had the most deaths and the primary blood type in Italy is "A".......well?

It just does not compute in my head.....maybe because it's too early for me?

Yes there are major differences in levels of respiratory assist treatment. They are using these levels of treatment given as a measure of the severity of the disease.
1 - supplemental oxygen therapy only
2 - noninvasive ventilatory support
3 - invasive ventilatory support
4 - extracorporeal membrane oxygenation

All the patients did have at least one positive test for wuhuflu.

There were multiple hospitals involved in Italy and multiple more in Spain so there could be policy differences between countries, between hospitals and even between physicians. Or there could be differences in the availability of equipment involved too.

The article was poor but the actual paper explains it better. They identified some genetic susceptibilities specifically associated with blood type genes. The paper and its supplemental appendices are available here - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2020283

I am blood type A+ so I felt obliged to read it.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, I'm O+, but with some potential risk factors, so I feel abit better about my overall chances.

Interesting study from the UK that also looks at many factors across 17M patients.
https://www.medwirenews.com/diabete...ociated-with-covid-19-mortality-risk/18162546

As reported in Nature, Ben Goldacre (University of Oxford, UK) and co-researchers created OpenSAFELY as a secure method to analyze pseudonymized electronic medical records. They used primary care data from 17,278,392 adults, 10,926 (0.06%) of whom died and had COVID-19 recorded on their death certificate, to identify clinical risk factors for COVID-19 mortality.

[

 

[Alpo]

Yeah. I read the article this morning.

Summary: Don't be over 80 years old.

 

[nonobaddog]

They report A1c levels in mmol/mol while I get A1c results in % here in the States.

A1c conversion
6% - 42 mmol/mol
7% - 53
8% - 64
9% - 75

 

[BugI02]

I am not challenging the study, but pretty much all initial data had a major question mark next to it. I add that there is a MAJOR difference between supplemental O2 and extracorporeal oxygenation (and everything in between) when treating respiratory complications. They already had the disease and some say the treatment of the disease impacted the the progression into full blown ARDS. My point with this is how do you determine an outcome when you do not know for certain if in fact the china flu was responsible for the ARDS? Are blood types more prominent in certain countries (Italy is A)? Did Italy manage their patients differently than other areas of the world?

My point is that IMO, the data to determine blood type resistance (or whatever) cannot be made; at least this soon. Too many variables. Premature diagnosis of respiratory failure, delayed diagnosis, ventilator induced ARDS, variable between countries in the management of patients and so on. If Italy is seen as one that had the most deaths and the primary blood type in Italy is "A".......well?

It just does not compute in my head.....maybe because it's too early for me?

The only interpretation that I pulled from the studies was that the virus presents some of the bloodtype surface antigens of the type of the host cell it incubated in. Type A and type B blood have different surface antigens while type O has none, and those with type A blood react to type B antigens, type B people react to type A antigens and type O people react to both while triggering no reaction in types A and B. It seemed that if a person with type A blood was exposed to WuVid from another type A it was thought to take longer to trigger an immune response and thus the virus gained a broader foothold, and the same for type Bs infecting other type Bs. The type Os had an edge because they reacted to both morphologies

Ignoring Rh factor, the US distribution of bloodtypes is: O 45% A 40% B 11% and AB 4%. Just by inspection, it would seem that Os would mount an enhanced immune response to 55% of the potential sources, As only 15% and Bs to 44%

I would expect the relative prevalence of WuVid by bloodtype would be lowest for Os, next lowest for Bs and highest for As and that is indeed what they found. What the media was hyping was that A was represented at higher percentages than its prevalence in the population, but as mentioned the cohort was entirely severe illness as well as being from areas with a different pattern of bloodtype distribution

 

[OurDee]

I found this interesting:
[video=youtube;_1z664H7EiA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=238&v=_1z664H7EiA&feature=emb_ logo[/video]

 

[actaeon277]

Well, they'll want to "cancel" that doc now.

More likely to die in auto accident (unless you are in high risk group).

 

[actaeon277]

https://patriotpost.us/articles/72059-cuomo-rewrites-covid-19-history-2020-07-10
Cuomo says "it's not his fault."

Since his "side" seems to be hell bent on removing protection from the police, maybe the same should be done do him.

 

[Tombs]

I found this interesting:
[video=youtube;_1z664H7EiA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=238&v=_1z664H7EiA&feature=emb_ logo[/video]

What's causing the spike in cases? November 3rd is getting closer and the rioting has started to lose its importance in the public's minds.

 

[KMaC]

Media is concerned that ISDH is reporting 793 "new cases" and emphasizing the mask up campaign. The ISDH site has a footnote that the 793 new cases are between June 6th and July 10th.
They don't break the new cases down by date so it is unknown how many of these cases are actually weeks old and have already recovered.
They are using the term "new cases" when they actually mean "newly reported cases".
I don't know whether this is purposeful misdirection to support the mask up campaign that the Governor will probably mandate or just messy stats that have to be interpreted.

 

[qwerty]

Media is concerned that ISDH is reporting 793 "new cases" and emphasizing the mask up campaign. The ISDH site has a footnote that the 793 new cases are between June 6th and July 10th.
They don't break the new cases down by date so it is unknown how many of these cases are actually weeks old and have already recovered.
They are using the term "new cases" when they actually mean "newly reported cases".
I don't know whether this is purposeful misdirection to support the mask up campaign that the Governor will probably mandate or just messy stats that have to be interpreted.

They break them out by date on the dashboard, 791 yesterday, 1 on 6/6 and 1 on 7/9. They are somewhat fluid and will change as they are updated or confirmed just like the deaths.

 

[KMaC]

They break them out by date on the dashboard, 791 yesterday, 1 on 6/6 and 1 on 7/9. They are somewhat fluid and will change as they are updated or confirmed just like the deaths.

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't see anything but the 7/9 cases reported on the dashboard since the single case was too small to display.

 

[Phase2]

 

[sparky32]

Sunday morning news on ABC just said 20 million people protested for BLM..... Yet we need to close small business again that causes the spread. Good luck with trying to get owners to do that again.

 

[Doug]

I noticed on the ISDH graphs that the spikes in positive cases seem to coincide with the spikes in testing.
It seems that if you test more people, you find more Covid cases.
Who would have ever thought that?!??

I'll be surprised if anyone can find a news report that admits the recent spikes in positive cases coincides with spikes in testing.