Considering the 1911...again

[WillBrayJr]

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it here as well. The 1911 as JMB designed was as perfect as an autoloading pistol could get. There weren't any issues until Manufacturers starting screwing with it's design. The 1911 was loosely fitted for a reason and when Manufacturers tightened the fit there went reliability. I haven't seen a quality basic 1911 malfunction unless it was due to it's user.

 

[dom1104]

Huh.

There are a lot of absolutes and nevers being tossed around in this thread.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The 1911 was loosely fitted for a reason and when Manufacturers tightened the fit there went reliability

Perhaps in the case of shade tree gunsmiths, but the notion that the 1911 must be a rattletrap is incorrect, e.g. Les Baer 1911 pistols.

 

[WillBrayJr]

Perhaps in the case of shade tree gunsmiths, but the notion that the 1911 must be a rattletrap is incorrect, e.g. Les Baer 1911 pistols.

Not everybody has $1,600+ to blow on a Les Baer. Sure they're great firearms but they're overpriced for what they are.

 

[60Driver]

Obviously I like many of the above am biased towards the 1911 platform. Sounds to me like your 1991-1911 had some serious quality control issues. I do not have any personal experience with the 1991 but have read of many that run great and others not so much. My 2 cents is that Colt sadly had some quality issues in that timeframe.

I can tell you definately that a "tightly" fitted 1911 can run Extremely reliably and mine is a 4.25 no less which has cycle time/slide run making it more inclined to malfunction. It is my EDC and a pistol I carried in harms way with 100% trust.

That being said I think what Vickers said about the 1911 is true:

"How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?
That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock."

Remember that the guy saying that is both a master smith and end user of the platform under the most extreme circumstances, making him in my mind very well qualified to comment on the 1911. In my less qualified words a 1911 is a sportscar that if tuned/maintained/tested can do great things, but is intolerant of lack of maintenance. A Stock Glock is a Toyota that will run and run, but may not be as capable. If you want MAXIMUM reliabilty with minimum tuning go with a wheelgun. NO semi auto is 100% in every example from a manufacturer, some are more reliable than others. But if you doubt that a 1911 can be "reliable" look at this brief list of some of the folks who use them in harms way:

USMC Force Recon/MEU SOC - Government frame , some Springer slides match barrel, sights etc
USA SFOD-D - Government frame(?) built to spec
FBI HRT initially Les Baer then Springer Custom shop
LAPD SIS/SWAT - Kimber

None of these folks can afford to have anything but the best possible sidearm given their line of work. Reliability, accuracy and the fight stopping capability of the 45ACP are obviously important to them.

At the end of the day you have to choose your sidearm, I am certain you can find a great 1911, but if you are more comfortable with another PROVEN platform (Sig 22X, M9, Glock 19, HK) go with that....a man has to trust his tools

 

[60Driver]

Not everybody has $1,600+ to blow on a Les Baer. Sure they're great firearms but they're overpriced for what they are.

Oh see now I have to defend my choice Are Baers (or EB, Wilson, NH, etc) expensive....yup. That being said, of the Semi Customs Baers are the LEAST expensive. You can have a good smith build a very good 1911 for a little less but I would argue not much less. Smarter guys than me normally consider Baer to be a VERY good value in terms of what you get for your hard earned money. Can you buy a great 1911 for less,...yup TRP, Several of the Kimbers, DW come to mind. But Baers are not "overpriced" for the workmanship and quality that goes into them, just my opinion but I can tell you that I would not sell or trade mine for anything.

 

[WebSnyper]

Man, that limp wrist test video was a bit scary. I don't think I could let the pistol go that loose in my hand while firing. I would like to see the test in a non compensated Glock. It would seem that the reduced recoil from the compensation cuts in the barrel could cause some issues with ejection when limp wristing.

 

[WillBrayJr]

Oh see now I have to defend my choice Are Baers (or EB, Wilson, NH, etc) expensive....yup. That being said, of the Semi Customs Baers are the LEAST expensive. You can have a good smith build a very good 1911 for a little less but I would argue not much less. Smarter guys than me normally consider Baer to be a VERY good value in terms of what you get for your hard earned money. Can you buy a great 1911 for less,...yup TRP, Several of the Kimbers, DW come to mind. But Baers are not "overpriced" for the workmanship and quality that goes into them, just my opinion but I can tell you that I would not sell or trade mine for anything.

If I shelled out that kind of money I wouldn't sell or trade it either. You'd need your Brain examined if you did. However there's plenty of cheaper 1911s that will do the same thing. If I still had the Springfield-GI that I sold in 2005 I'd feel comfortable putting it up against a Les Baer.

 

[60Driver]

If I shelled out that kind of money I wouldn't sell or trade it either. You'd need your Brain examined if you did. However there's plenty of cheaper 1911s that will do the same thing. If I still had the Springfield-GI that I sold in 2005 I'd feel comfortable putting it up against a Les Baer.

No doubt that MANY 1911's can run with higher end guns. I have shot a few Springers, Colts etc that were just "magic" out of the box...their owners would not part with them either. When you find a pistol like that KEEP it! For me my C7 was bought long ago, my attachment is not monetary, its because the gun always shot well for me, and has proven so reliable. Plus it has been with me downrange so it will be an heirloom much like my Grandads 1911. I could buy a new one but I would not KNOW it performed as well as the one I have. In that sense I would not trade it even for a much more expensive 1911.

 

[Hornett]

I have owned a Kimber, Para Ordnance, Charles Daly, and Springfield.

The Kimber was finicky about magazines.
It liked wilson combat mags and has been 100% reliable since I switched to those mags.

The Para Ordnance hammer followed the slide sometimes, and had to go back.
They fixed it and it was fine after that.

The Charles Daly was an officers model with a 3 1/2" barrel.
That gun was scary accurate and was very reliable...
UNTIL you tried to run hollow points in it.
It didn't like those at all.

I have only had a few mags through the Springfield, but so far, it has been good to go.
I am using Wilson Combat mags on the Springfield.

Edit: If I had the money... all the high end guns like Nighthawk Custom, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and Ed Brown have a good reputation and I would not hesitate to buy one. IF I had the money.

 

[Cowboy1629]

I have had good luck with 1911's, I own several of them.

I had an early series 80 light weight commander that gave me some problems (picky about ammo, didn't like SWC). Had a gunsmith work it over and it has worked flawlessly since, in fact I still own it.

Had a Para in .40 and two in .45. The .45's worked fine but the .40 gave me some problems but was corrected by the gunsmith.

I have a Kimber Ultra CDP II (3" barrel) that is one of my daily carries that is flawless once I switched to Cobra mags. Only had one issue with factory mag but one was too many for me. I also have a Les Baer, Ed Brown, and recently acquired a Wilson. None of these top end guns have given me an issue.

1911's are like any other gun out there they are mechanical and can malfunction. There is no gun that is 100%. It comes down to what platform you are most comfortable with and what platform you can handle a malfunction with. It's pretty obvious which one I trust.

 

[WillBrayJr]

If a person buys a gun from a quality Manufacturer, takes care of it properly, and feeds it the ammo type recommended in the manual you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Mike_Indy]

I had a S&W 1911PD and it was excellent. Never failed me in about 2000+ rounds. I sold it to finance another project.

I have a S&W 1911 PC that is back a the performance center for maintenance. It is also extremely reliable.

I carry an M&P but sill have a 1911 because I love the platform and it is a fun shooter. I'll liekly be adding another 1911 in Nov.

 

[Caleb]

I've considered a 1911... I don't have a lot of money but I want something reliable, also i do not like wide grip handles

 

[OD*]

Perhaps in the case of shade tree gunsmiths, but the notion that the 1911 must be a rattletrap is incorrect, e.g. Les Baer 1911 pistols.

And the original JMB designed 1911/A1s weren't built loose, the specifications weren't relaxed until Nov. 1943, to help expedite parts interchangeability between manufacturers.

 

[Mr.JAG]

It seems that firearms can be hit or miss from manufacture to manufacture AND from gun to identical gun. The replies here seem to be posts going back and forth "The 1911 isn't perfect, no gun is" or "Mine never has problems".

Perhaps, you should wait and find a used 1911 of whatever make. Maybe one from a good friend you trust and has had little problems with the gun. Basically, a specific 1911 that ALREADY has a favorable track record, instead of putting your chips on the table for a new gun with unknowns.

Just a thought.

 

[dom1104]

My advice is, spend some cash, get a decent gun.

 

[wetidlerjr]

I have and have had many 1911s ("1911 style" for the "a 1991 isn't a 1911" crowd) and I have had very little problems with any. Like all guns, sooner or later something will go wrong. My problems have been minor and easily corrected but I may just be lucky. As for "loose or tight", keep in mind that the bushing/barrel fit is the most important aspect for good accuracy which means you don't have to have a pistol tight all over to be accurate and function correctly. That said, having a "tight" pistol like a Baer doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. Without exception, all the reports I have read on Baers have been VERY positive. They are known as excellent 1911s.
As mentioned, see if you can fire a friend's reliable 1911 (more than one friend if possible) to get the feel of a good pistol. Take your time looking; it isn't a race.

 

[Hoosier45]

I've owned Colt, Springfield, Kimber, and Para. The only one that was rough out of the box was the Para. I would not hesitate to buy any of these again. Nor would I be afraid to buy a Taurus, S&W, Rock, etc. And will someday soon buy Les Bear, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, or Wilson Combat.

If the 1911 was such a terrible gun, it wouldn't still be this popular 100 years later.

 

[WillBrayJr]

I've owned Colt, Springfield, Kimber, and Para. The only one that was rough out of the box was the Para. I would not hesitate to buy any of these again. Nor would I be afraid to buy a Taurus, S&W, Rock, etc. And will someday soon buy Les Bear, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, or Wilson Combat.

If the 1911 was such a terrible gun, it wouldn't still be this popular 100 years later.

I'd take a Springer any day. You're just buying the name with the Colt and Kimber. Wouldn't touch the Paras. Taurus is alright. Again, you're just buying the name with a Smith&Wesson. Not saying the Smith is bad, just overrated. 1911s like Les Baers are nice but would you really want to carry one in a muddy field?