Concealed Carry with a Class 3 weapon? (suppressed or F/A)

[redpitbull44]

Question.

Lets say I have a LTCH. Lets then say I have a pistol with a threaded barrel. An FNP45 Tactical, since I like them. Lets say I also have a Suppressor. Something nice, like an SilencerCo. Osprey 45, because I like those too. Of course, all of the above are completely legal and above board, tax stamp paid etc.

Now, with the LTCH I am good to go carrying the FNP45 Tactical, cumbersome though it may be, and I know the threaded barrel means exactly squat.
But lets say I want to carry it with a suppressor attached.
What if the pistol and the gun were separate, but still on my person?
What (if any) legal ramifications could befall me? Granted, this combo would be longer than Mr. Ed's..... leg, but thats beside the point.
And on that note:

Also, what about a little .22s with integrated silencer? I mean, the above doesn't even have to be a FNP/Osprey combo, it could be a P380 with a suppressor.

The reason I ask this is two part.
#1 You see all this James Bond stuff in the movies with suppressed whatnots, and wonder (even though they have a license to kill)
#2 It would seem that if S did HTF you would (might be) better off with a quieter firearm in some scenarios ( large enclosed area with multiple BGs).

My other question:
Lets say I have a Glock 18 (or some other fully automatic handgun). Lets say I have a LTCH. Can I carry my Glock 18 (or other fully automatic handgun)? Can I carry it suppressed?

If this has already been covered, I am sorry. I did search under the following:
class 3 concealed carry
class III concealed carry
concealed suppressed
concealed suppressed full auto
concealed suppressed FA
concealed full auto
concealed FA
concealed F/A

 

[esrice]

Yes you can carry all that.

There is always the question of "will it look bad to a jury", but legally yes, you can carry it all.

 

[JTinIN]

Lets say you are in a what you consider to be a justifiable shooting, but something goes wrong and you miss, and nick an innocent bystander.

For what ever reason you are found guilty of a very low level felony along the lines of endangerment. Check out the possible extra time or using a NFA items in a felony .... use to be an extra bonus of 30 years per occurrence.

Probably not a great danger, but another in a long list of why NFA should not be used for carry etc.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Lets say you are in a what you consider to be a justifiable shooting, but something goes wrong and you miss, and nick an innocent bystander.

For what ever reason you are found guilty of a very low level felony along the lines of endangerment. Check out the possible extra time or using a NFA items in a felony .... use to be an extra bonus of 30 years per occurrence.

Probably not a great danger, but another in a long list of why NFA should not be used for carry etc.

An extra 30 years? I gotta see this, please give us a link.

 

[redpitbull44]

An extra 30 years? I gotta see this, please give us a link.

Anybody else confirm what esrice said?

I honestly am not worried about the whole judge judy and executioner bit at this point. I care more about what is on the BOOKS. You guys are quick to play armchair prosecutor, and think up all the chicken little ways they can get you.

 

[snapping turtle]

I think it is 20 year federal sentence. Same as body armor worn in comission of a crime. I am not lawyer or judge, I did read the newspaper court area often and I do believe the one case i have read had a 20 year sentence for body armor in a hold up.

 

[redpitbull44]

I think it is 20 year federal sentence. Same as body armor worn in comission of a crime. I am not lawyer or judge, I did read the newspaper court area often and I do believe the one case i have read had a 20 year sentence for body armor in a hold up.

I wonder if that counts for cops who wrongfully shoot someone....

 

[Mr. Habib]

Anybody else confirm what esrice said?

I honestly am not worried about the whole judge judy and executioner bit at this point. I care more about what is on the BOOKS. You guys are quick to pay armchair prosecutor, and think up all the chicken little ways they can get you.

You won't find anything "on the books" because it is completely legal to transport a legally owned NFA item within the state.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Anybody else confirm what esrice said?

I can confirm. Everything I have ever seen has said you can do it, and I've never seen/read/heard anything that says you can't.

I'm skeptical of the "additional sentence" thing you guys are talking about and I'm gonna raise the until I've seen code or court cases regarding it.

 

[samot]

legal...... sure

Wise .... NO
JTinIN said it best

 

[chuckp]

A good attorney would shove this up your rectum. Could you imagine going to a jury trial and how you would made to be the evil assassin caring the silenced assault pistol. Obviously it's not what your doing but that's how they will paint the picture to the jury that will be picked accordingly by them.

How much can you afford to spend to prove you were not wrong?

Chuckp

 

[DanO]

It seems silly to work hard, gain some personal wealth, hopefully have some preps for anticipated events, and then gamble it all by opening the door to a civil suit.

OP - if you are thinking about carrying a suppressor on your FN tactical pistol, I hope you have a long torso! Perhaps you can get you "Bond" on and still not be walking around with the suppressor attached. Keep it in a belt pouch. If you find yourself in a gunfight and feel the need to be quiet while shooting, I think you may have the time to thread it on. Gunfights by their nature are noisy messy things and I do not think it is bad they are noisy. It lets people know there is a problem and to get down/get away. The use of NFA items is a TACTICAL issue that you should take some time to plan and deploy.

 

[JTinIN]

Interesting discussion and one that I had with a friend 30 years ago when he was carrying a NFA MAC 11 (380), having just gotten out of the Core and not had time to get anything else but his MAC 11 he had before going in (everything else was trade/borrowed by family).

Excluding zombie and/or aliens from outer space (had to work that in sooner or later ;-) or at least the permanent end of the USA as we know it, most any major SHTF still has legal issues after the mess is sorted out ... same for war zones (at least for the winning side to look into).

That said, one has to balance the risk to rewards ratio, for full auto weapons the chance of a stray round hitting the wrong person is too high to really make much of a case ... besides for most cases aimed fire is better than an empty mag ... IMO. Anything where a belt is called for has better be connected with the end of the world, as one would really hate to have order restored later and have to go on trial.

For suppressors, one is going to have balance the change of impact with and with out the suppressor vs. extra size vs the minor advantage on the defense of making less noise ... one should not really in 999.9 cases out of a 1000 really be shooting someone that is not an threat to yourself and family at the moment and these people generally are looking at you. Anything else tends to get very close or into murder chargers of various levels for the shooter.

This leaves SBR's and AOWs (can't have short SBS in Indiana) which might be interesting and a little more handy ... but between a handgun and a 16" AR15 plus a 18" Rem 870 one can cover most bases. BUT a suppressed 10.5 inch barrel AR might be interesting .... but is nearly as long as the 16" barreled AR.

Bottom line is if something goes wrong and there are ANY NFA items in the area, connected or not to the shooting, one can be fairly sure that the search warrants will cover these plus you will get to talk with a couple guys/gals from the BATFE who stop by for a day or two just to check out the lint in your navel along with everything else ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
The short summary was using a machine gun or a silencer in a crime can result in a sentencing enhancement of thirty years, even if there is no NFA prosecution. See 18 USC sec. 924.

Crimes and Criminal Procedure - 18 USC Section 924 - US Code

(c)(1)(A) Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is
otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of
law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of
violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence
or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment
if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device)
for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United
States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any
such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the
punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking
crime -

(i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5
years;

(ii) if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of
imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and

(iii) if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of
imprisonment of not less than 10 years.
(B) If the firearm possessed by a person convicted of a violation
of this subsection -

(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or
semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a
term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or

(ii) is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped
with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, the person shall be
sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.
(C) In the case of a second or subsequent conviction under this
subsection, the person shall -

(i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 25
years; and

(ii) if the firearm involved is a machinegun or a destructive
device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm
muffler, be sentenced to imprisonment for life.
(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law -

(i) a court shall not place on probation any person convicted
of a violation of this subsection; and

(ii) no term of imprisonment imposed on a person under this
subsection shall run concurrently with any other term of
imprisonment imposed on the person, including any term of
imprisonment imposed for the crime of violence or drug
trafficking crime during which the firearm was used, carried, or
possessed.
(2) For purposes of this subsection, the term "drug trafficking
crime" means any felony punishable under the Controlled Substances
Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and
Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or the Maritime Drug Law
Enforcement Act (46 U.S.C. App. 1901 et seq.).
(3) For purposes of this subsection the term "crime of violence"
means an offense that is a felony and -

(A) has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use
of physical force against the person or property of another, or

(B) that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that
physical force against the person or property of another may be
used in the course of committing the offense.
(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term "brandish" means,
with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm,
or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another
person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether
the firearm is directly visible to that person.

 

[alfahornet]

Thanks JTinIN, excellent post IMO. I agree 100% with chuckp and think it is a very bad idea to carry NFA for personal defense (unless you absolutely have no other option and even be very careful), simply because it makes you look BAD/EVIL in the eyes of the prosecuter, jury, judge and cops (who may not share our enthusiasm for class 3.) Now of course you always hope nothing goes bad when you have to defend yourself but can you be sure? And are you willing to risk it?

Note that even an SBR will get you an extra 10 year vacation at club Fed.

Note to myself: move the SBRs to the back of the safe...

One thing I am wondering about however from a purely theoretical point of view, can the above federal statute be applied to a state crime, which is not necessarily a federal crime?

 

[CountryBoy19]

One thing I am wondering about however from a purely theoretical point of view, can the above federal statute be applied to a state crime, which is not necessarily a federal crime?

I don't think so. From my reading of it, it seems as though those are only "tacked on" to current federal charges.

 

[JTinIN]

I don't think so. From my reading of it, it seems as though those are only "tacked on" to current federal charges.

While you are probably totally correct, with my luck I would get charged with some Federal crime also ;-).

Really hate to have to eat prison food for the next 30+ years ... if live that long.

 

[Martin Draco]

Make sure you have on your possession a copy of your approved tax stamps. I got pulled over with my Mac SMG and suppressor and Hamilton County Mounties took it with them (it was quite a scene in the middle of Carmel) and I had to bring my Tax stamps so they could fax it to ATF to make sure it's ligit.

 

[Gabriel]

I don't think so. From my reading of it, it seems as though those are only "tacked on" to current federal charges.

I'm not sure exactly how it works because I'm not normally involved in it, but we have several officers that are also sworn US Marshalls. I know they've come to me after some firearm related arrests and taken the charges federally.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I'm not sure exactly how it works because I'm not normally involved in it, but we have several officers that are also sworn US Marshalls. I know they've come to me after some firearm related arrests and taken the charges federally.

Correct, I didn't say that the feds can't prosecute. They can always prosecute a person that broke a law. But from my reading they cannot prosecute on those conditions alone. Those are "tacked on" charged. You had to break some other law in order for those laws to be broken, and therefore can't be prosecuted for those without first being charged for the initial crime.

 

[revsaxon]

Thats interesting, as for a while now my home defense gun has been a (non-automatic) SBR uzi (its the gun im the best snap shot with, simple as that). While I always figured it would sound bad to a jury "He upen up on the poor defenseless intruder with an uzi," i figured the "intruder" portion of that would cover my ass. After reading the above about the "sentencing enhancement" I think it might be time to switch back to a 12g for home defense, even if im not as good with it, as 30 years in a federal prison doesn't sit well with me.