Complacency, Ohio instructor shoots a student in the arm...

[AngryRooster]

Nah, the rule didn't apply to him because he is older and wise beyond his years. He's sure he unloaded the gun.

"It's a setup I tell ya. I checked it! I've been framed"

 

[gstanley102]

Hmmm, isn't Rule #1 "All guns are ALWAYS loaded"?

Oh, wait, Rule #1 is old and busted and not hip and cool enough.

When I'm 73 I doubt I'll be hip and or cool.

Rule #1

 

[BehindBlueI's]

He claimed he didnt know it was loaded.

If only there were some way to verify if a revolver was loaded or not. You know, like looking at it. YOU CAN SEE THE CARTRIDGE IN THE CYLINDER.

Guess which one is loaded? Right, the one with visible cartridges in the cylinder. You can plainly see if there is a cartridge ready to be fired from behind the revolver, as you would while holding it, even without taking the time to do it right and open the cylinder to check all the holes.

 

[halfmileharry]

He's making sure he has the full attention of the class.

 

[hornadylnl]

The paranoia levels that some take gun safety to almost gives credibility to the fears the antis have of guns.

 

[Slawburger]

So what does this thread have in common with the thread from a week ago?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general-firearms-discussion/307669-swept-clerk.html

 

[Mark 1911]

That oughta teach 'em not to sleep in class!

I said wake up you sum-a-mitch, kapow!

 

[atvdave]

So what does this thread have in common with the thread from a week ago?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general-firearms-discussion/307669-swept-clerk.html

If it was a .22 it would not have penetrated the skin?

and hold onto your wallet.

 

[LarryC]

The paranoia levels that some take gun safety to almost gives credibility to the fears the antis have of guns.

Have to agree - Really, look at the attention this accident is getting. How many times has an Instructor had an accidental or negligent discharge in any class in this or any state. Anyone that thinks this is a serious issue should stay indoors - the chances of being injured in a lightening strike are far higher than being injured in a gun class.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How many times has an Instructor had an accidental or negligent discharge in any class in this or any state.

A bunch.

It's not the odds, it's the stakes.

 

[bingley]

the chances of being injured in a lightening strike are far higher than being injured in a gun class.

But that's precisely what makes this story newsworthy. The vast majority of gun classes are safe, and that's not a good story. No one would report "thirty people took a defensive pistol class and went home safely at the end of the weekend," just as no one would report "nobody got hurt this morning in the commute to work."

I think safety is always a serious issue. I don't think we need to be paranoid about safety in gun classes. But I won't stand downrange and take pictures.

 

[Purdue Plinker]

The paranoia levels that some take gun safety to almost gives credibility to the fears the antis have of guns.

IMO there is a difference between fear and respect. Driving kills a crapton more people than guns but I still get behind the wheel everyday. Now, I always buckle up and drive defensively - assuming everyone is a terrible driver about to cut me off - but I'm not terrified, just mindful of risks and minimizing the chances of an issue.

 

[philbert001]

He was just trying to create a realistic training environment, show them that the real world isn't a box shaped range, and give the EMTs present a chance to practice their craft. Seems like a great instructor to me.

Lol! "NOW can you admit that at some point, you may need to know how to shoot weak side!?:

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't think we need to be paranoid about safety in gun classes.

I sure as heck think we need to be paranoid.

The minute, the very minute, we stop being paranoid we wave guns around classrooms, or we have our students shoot each other with "unloaded" guns, or we go tearing into a shoot house because the range officer called the range clear and we shoot students because we thought the house was clear Rule #4 be damned.

Look at INGO, people will fight you when you say "All guns are always loaded". Heck, people will fight you over the Four Rules. If you don't believe that guns are always loaded, you wave a Ruger .357 around in the classroom and give the antis some solid gold material.

The Four Rules were developed by people that knew what the f**k they were talking about. They exist for a reason--so people in classrooms don't get extra holes.
1
I still want to know if the instructor thought he had "only" a blue gun and thus he thought it was perfectly safe to wave around.

 

[AngryRooster]

Amazing, a firearms instructor teaching a class has a NEGLIGENT discharge and shoots a student because he took the 4 rules for granted, and still people complain about those same rules and call those of us that follow them sacred and paranoid.

I bet if it were you or your family that was shot you would sure as he** would pay attention to where each and every muzzle was pointed from that point forward.

 

[hornadylnl]

Amazing, a firearms instructor teaching a class has a NEGLIGENT discharge and shoots a student because he took the 4 rules for granted, and still people complain about those same rules and call those of us that follow them sacred and paranoid.

I bet if it were you or your family that was shot you would sure as he** would pay attention to where each and every muzzle was pointed from that point forward.

I see my point has escaped you.

There used to be a website with a live webcam "pointed" at an AR. It was mocking the notion of the antis that the AR was going to just jump up on it's own and start mowing people down. With the language that the "anti pointing crowd" uses, it seems to lend credibility to those who think that AR was going to jump up and start mowing people down.

Curious as to how some of you would ever inspect the rifling or clean an M1.

 

[AngryRooster]

I see my point has escaped you.

There used to be a website with a live webcam "pointed" at an AR. It was mocking the notion of the antis that the AR was going to just jump up on it's own and start mowing people down. With the language that the "anti pointing crowd" uses, it seems to lend credibility to those who think that AR was going to jump up and start mowing people down.

Curious as to how some of you would ever inspect the rifling or clean an M1.

I've never seen that webcam, lol I love the idea though. My comments weren't really aimed at your post. More of a general comment directed at several people across a few threads. I didn't word it very well, long day and I'm tired.

It's mainly directed at those who think it's okay to ignore the 4 rules because they seem to know better. Those who seriously ask if people get nervous and leave a gun shop because the muzzles are point at them while they are on the shelf. Those who want to know if I worry about a gun in a shoulder holster pointing straight back. Those people who chastise others when we voice the fact we don't like being swept by someone we don't know with a gun we haven't inspected ourselves. Some of these same people say we can't have served in the military of law enforcement because it's common place there and we should just get used to it because it happens.

Maybe it's news to them, but some people have seen first hand the results of a gunshot to flesh and don't wish to take stupid chances. These people in the class where this happened trusted the instructor as he was a professional and supposed to be the expert. Yet look what happened. How many of them were new shooters that will either abandon firearms for good now or at least have serious doubts about their safety for a long time. If this "professional" can let this happen then how are we supposed to feel when we go to a show or a shop and an unknown customer or counter person is sweeping us with an unknown gun that we haven't inspected ourselves. What about when you see a salesperson putting a red dot on your chest from a few rows over trying to make a sale on a laser at a show. I guess we are all over reacting and should "just get over it because it happens". Yes it happens, guess what else happens. Sometimes people get shot by "unloaded and safe" firearms. How? Ignoring the 4 rules is a good start.

 

[hornadylnl]

And those who constantly harp on pointing or the 4 rules have and do violate them. It's much like Internet bravado.

How would you inspect the rifling or clean an M1 Garand? Because according to the 4 rules and pointing crowd, it's impossible.

 

[AngryRooster]

Clearing and checking your own gun is one thing. It's something entirely different when unknown persons and firearms are brought into the equation.

What's the first step in cleaning your guns. Unload them and make them safe. If I handed you a rifle and told you that I cleared it and wanted you to clean it for me but you didn't see me do it, what's the first thing you should do? The answer is not (A) point it back at me, (B) run a cleaning rod down the barrel, (C) pull the trigger.

Should be common sense. I don't have a fear of my own guns that I've cleared, I don't have a fear about guns that aren't being fondled and sitting on a shelf. The only guns I actually FEAR are those that have been pointed at me in either anger or negligence. A healthy dose or respect is in order all other times though.

 

[atvdave]

and what are these 4 rules?