Colin Kaepernick protests the Anthem

[BugI02]

I do... and I think they have every right to be upset with what he said. He's the boss, and the players are his employees. He's made a statement concerning all the players in the NFL, and most importantly those that are on the team he owns. If you're at work, and you do your job, and abide by the bosses wishes (i.e. not kneeling), would you take exception if he made negative sweeping generalization, to a third party, of his worker's performance, that included you? Does one simply say "well, he wasn't talking about me," and move on? That's one reason why I could see players being upset.

The next reason is fairly obvious. I think we can agree that "thugs" belong in jail or prison, right? It's not huge leap of the imagination for players across the league to see his "prisoner" comment as coming from the same place of ignorance. You can find plenty of sources that refer to players a "thugs," despite the general population being more "thuggish." I can see the players resenting this often repeated belief (i.e. Richard Sherman). It was a very unfortunate choice of words that were chosen, so I'm glad he apologized....kinda.

[True thugs belong dead (see: The Raj, 1835 - 1870). If one insists on taking every word literally, the thuggees were ruthlessly stamped out over 100 years ago. And I still see this as arguing from both sides of an issue. You cannot use the lower conviction rate for NFL players as evidence of their moral superiority to the general population while arguing that a lower conviction rate is evidence of 'privilege' and greater resources influencing court verdicts under other circumstances. If the courts respond to 'privilege' and high priced lawyers, it likely is in a color-blind way (see: Ray Lewis (previously referenced)). I live in a city which revolves around a college football powerhouse, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the expectation of privilege and exceptionalism reaches full flower therein, but starts even earlier in the high school powerhouses that feed the NCAA machine (Moeller comes to mind)]

The last reason, is the dynamic it portrays between the owner and the players. He is not a warden, they are not prisoners, and the NFL isn't a prison. The owners aren't giving away jobs in the NFL out of the kindness of their hearts, they need and actively seek to employ the best athletes in the game. It's a one hand washes the other relationship. They both make millions off of each other. This particular owner's comment betrays that relationship.

*.*

 

[jamil]

I'm unsure of what you mean. I have no recollection of that, and would find it odd for me to make such a generalization. Which post are you speaking of?

I’ll find it later when I’m at a computer. iPhone isn’t the best for more advanced INGOing. I think I replied to that post though.

 

[Dirtebiker]

The NFL has no such obligation to determine for it's viewing public what is "respectful" or "disrespectful," when there is no consensus amongst the public one way or the other.

You don't think the majority of Americans view the kneelers as disrespectful?

 

[Dirtebiker]

Not up with current events, 'eh?

Not all, but most. Why?

 

[Kutnupe14]

You don't think the majority of Americans view the kneelers as disrespectful?

I used the word "consensus," not majority. I do think numerically the majority of Americans think that the NFL players should not be kneeling, but even in majority, minority, or consensus, no one can state, as fact, one stance is right while the other is wrong.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not all, but most. Why?

He had already been banned when you replied to his post.

 

[Dirtebiker]

You mean like saying something when they interview the players maybe.

Yes,
or maybe protest in front of the police station or the house of the Government they say is oppressive.
Being famous sports figures, they'd surely get the attention they supposedly seek.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Take a lesson from our president. You risk almost as much with the apology as you did with the original controversial statement.

More, if you apologize when you've done no wrong, you are judged guilty.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Never? Ok, but anyways it was simply used as an example. How about "serf," ever heard of that one? This isn't about how familiar one is with my examples, but rather the relationship illustrated by the language used in such a way.

Understood.
I'm not an educated person, I've never heard that before and didn't understand the reference.
I took his comment (as I assume it was intended) to mean you don't let the employees run the company. How else could it have been taken? Without being twisted!

 

[actaeon277]

Seems we're diverging from the focus of where this conversation started. The NFL players didn't like being compared to prisoners. It was suggested that such was possibly a valid analogy. NFL players are arrested at a rate less than that of the average American, which seems to put to rest, when taken as a body, that the NFL-prisoner comparison as being valid. Interjecting a few specific instances of criminal wrongdoing does not make it true for the entire league.

After looking up more things, I agree with that statement now.
A retract my previous statement about players being arrested.
And I make an apology now for it.

And yes, a discussion on whether they "get away" with things because of $$$ and fame would be outside the parameters of this discussion.



I need catchup for my "crow".

 

[actaeon277]

Well I guess I just view the "asylum" thing from a different place.


I work in a place where they have meetings about, and preach, safety. Then when I'm a hundred feet up in the air and mention there are no tie off points, a boss said "Well, if you don't fall, you won't need fall protection will you. So go do the job and don't fall."


But then again, "words are a problem" are starting to take effect even here. At a union meeting the discussion was that the Feds were involved because a member complained about the language another member used towards another, and the company has to take that serious, in order to "provide a safe work place".
I had to stand up and question the importance of the Feds investigating a "safe work place" about words, when it had only been a week since a guy I had worked with for years had just go fried in an electrical distribution room.


Usually, any insults or words were "mill language" and things that crush/electrocute/amputate were important.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I used the word "consensus," not majority. I do think numerically the majority of Americans think that the NFL players should not be kneeling, but even in majority, minority, or consensus, no one can state, as fact, one stance is right while the other is wrong.

I agree.
As I said before, I'm not educated. Isn't consensus and the majority opinion basically the same?

 

[Dirtebiker]

He had already been banned when you replied to his post.

Doh!

 

[KittySlayer]

Yes,
or maybe protest in front of the police station or the house of the Government they say is oppressive.
Being famous sports figures, they'd surely get the attention they supposedly seek.

These men have jobs and can't just take an afternoon off to stand around on a sidewalk. I would imagine during the season they are putting in 60+ hour weeks which leaves little time for extracurricular activities.

 

[Dr.Midnight]

These men have jobs and can't just take an afternoon off to stand around on a sidewalk. I would imagine during the season they are putting in 60+ hour weeks which leaves little time for extracurricular activities.

I don't buy that. If you have time to shoot a commercial during the season, you have time to participate in a demonstration. Also, thousands of adults work tons of hours each week, yet still find time for kids ball games, going out to eat, and catching a movie. If it's important, you can find the time.

 

[Woobie]

Still not watching.

We have serious race problems in the U.S. Pissing on the flag is not going to solve them. The flag sits on my sleeve, so you're pissing on me too. And my friends. And my dead friends. So as soon as one of these ingrates goes on TV and apologizes, we will get back to solving the problem. And if he wants my help, he's got it. Until then, they can find a new place for that football.

 

[actaeon277]

About the "flag" and "veterans"...

I believe it's more than that.
It's more than the sacrifice of the veterans. And I say this, as a veteran.

In addition to the bad in America they are trying to point out, they are also trampling on...
Those that sacrificed in the Civil Rights area. Which are not rights just for minorities, they are rights for all Americans.
Those that helped slaves escape from the south.
Those that work in their communities to help those that need help.
Those that donate to causes to help other people.
Those that travel to natural disasters to help other people.

The list goes on.

 

[Kutnupe14]

About the "flag" and "veterans"...

I believe it's more than that.
It's more than the sacrifice of the veterans. And I say this, as a veteran.

In addition to the bad in America they are trying to point out, they are also trampling on...
Those that sacrificed in the Civil Rights area. Which are not rights just for minorities, they are rights for all Americans.
Those that helped slaves escape from the south.
Those that work in their communities to help those that need help.
Those that donate to causes to help other people.
Those that travel to natural disasters to help other people.

The list goes on.

Regardless of the one's opinion of the protests, I wish this reasoning was used more. The reasoning of "all" rather than "some."

 

[jamil]

Regardless of the one's opinion of the protests, I wish this reasoning was used more. The reasoning of "all" rather than "some."

That's been my objection from the start of this.

 

[femurphy77]

These men have jobs and can't just take an afternoon off to stand around on a sidewalk. I would imagine during the season they are putting in 60+ hour weeks which leaves little time for extracurricular activities.

Sounds like they're not all that committed to the cause if this where the case?!