Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Kirk Freeman]

My question is why they rolled in so close to the kid.

I cannot get beyond this.

This case makes me itch and I need that answered. Perhaps it has been and I have not yet read it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah, I played with toy guns. I played with my friends. This kid was a thug in training practicing his intimidation skills in the park. Watch the video as he uses an authentic looking weapon pointing it at strangers. Tamir was killed because he was stupid.

On what planet does one come to that conclusion? Oh yeah, nevermind, planet INGO.

 

[HoughMade]

My question is why they rolled in so close to the kid. Were they observing him from a distance and then decided this was the best/safest method? It would seem that this approach put the officer on the right side in immediate peril. Wasn't there a better way?

That's a good question. This entire thing makes me wonder what they were thinking, but one thing none of us know is: what wasn't shown on the video? Did the cops think they had to put themselves between the kid and others? I can't tell.

More questions than answers, even at this point.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I cannot get beyond this.

This case makes me itch and I need that answered. Perhaps it has been and I have not yet read it.

Ya know, I hadn't looked into this for a long time, so I went reading again. IMO, the two officer's involved shouldn't have been there, because they shouldn't have been officers in the first place. Timothy Loehmann, the shooter, didn't have the chops for the job. The departed he resigned from, to avoid termination stated he was unable to follow basic functions as instructed exhibitedhad a dangerous loss of composure, and concluding with Individually, these events would not be considered major situations, but when taken together they show a pattern of a lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions, I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies.
Why was this guy on the street?
Frank Garmback was responsible for the city paying out $100k for excessive force employed against a woman who called in a compliant about a vehicle blocking her driveway.

If we're going to talk about poor decision making, I think we're looking in the wrong direction if we're placing all the blame on a 12 year old who was killed by two simpletons who have notable instances of poor decision making.

 

[femurphy77]

This was going to turn out bad no matter which way it went. From the grainy video it was hard to tell what went down. It didn't "appear" to me from the several times I watched it that he "reached for the gun" until he had been shot and was clutching his guts. Of course I didn't see or hear all of the testimony that was presented unlike apparently some of the other posters since the determination was made or else I might be able to so assuredly decided the validity of the determination one way or the other. I should just keep quiet.

 

[KittySlayer]

On what planet does one come to that conclusion? Oh yeah, nevermind, planet INGO.

One of the surveillance videos that showed footage of the kid pointing the gun at other people in the park. Certainly did not look like the type of cops/robbers, cowboys/Indians, soldier play that I remember as a kid with a toy gun. Without the orange tip it sure looks like a real gun and should make anyone take pause when it is pointed at them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

One of the surveillance videos that showed footage of the kid pointing the gun at other people in the park. Certainly did not look like the type of cops/robbers, cowboys/Indians, soldier play that I remember as a kid with a toy gun. Without the orange tip it sure looks like a real gun and should make anyone take pause when it is pointed at them.

Well call me a thug right along with Tamir Rice then. I've pointed realistic looking toy guns at cars, buses, airplanes, pets, and people.
Idiots made this event unfold the way it did, not Tamir Rice.

 

[Dead Duck]

Looks like a Thug to me-







Maybe if he didn't act like a thug, and look like a thug, he wouldn't be mistaken to be a thug.

 

[Dead Duck]

It's A Hard Thug Life.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Looks like a Thug to me-







Maybe if he didn't act like a thug, and look like a thug, he wouldn't be mistaken to be a thug.

Ah yes, the thing that makes him look like a thug, doesn't wash off in the shower.

 

[Dead Duck]

I didn't see a tattoo, but if you say so....

 

[Kutnupe14]

I didn't see a tattoo, but if you say so....

How could you miss it, it's full body?

 

[HoughMade]

Looks like a Thug to me-







Maybe if he didn't act like a thug, and look like a thug, he wouldn't be mistaken to be a thug.

That's kinda a low "thug" threshold.

 

[Dead Duck]

How could you miss it, it's full body?

I grew up in LA and I know that being a Thug has nothing to do with color.

It's all about Attitude.





Why are you so racist today?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Get him DD!

View attachment 42121

 

[Kutnupe14]

I grew up in LA and I know that being a Thug has nothing to do with color.

It's all about Attitude.





Why are you so racist today?

Lol, wut? Is there some sort a of air of superiority that I'm not noticing in my posts?

 

[Doublehelix]

Obviously, this is a tragic situation, no matter which way you slice it. I am sure there are a lot of "should haves" on both Tamir's actions and the cop's.

Even if Tamir was not a thug, he as trying to act like one, no other way around it. We all played guns as kids, but I know I was always a US Army guy defending the world, or a cop in a "cops and robbers" theme. I was always playing "the good guy", not trying to play a thug. I don't know anything about Tamir's background or home life, but something made him want to act like a thug, and he is not "playing" the way I played when I was a kid, that is for sure.

Regarding the cops, it sounds like the shooter was probably not the best choice to have in that situation. From what Kutnupe14 has posted, it sounds like he was probably not the guy I would want to be there. Also the questions that were posted earlier about why they pulled up right next to the kid. I have no idea what the correct procedure is in these situations, but this one seems strange to me and my limited knowledge.

One thing is for sure. it is MUCH easier to be sitting here today knowing that it was a 12 YO kid, and knowing it was an airsoft gun. If I was the cop on the scene at the time without those 2 pieces of knowledge, how would I have responded? He had to make a quick decision in less time than it takes to takes to read this sentence.

There are a lot of unanswered questions here for sure, and there is never going to be definitive answer, no matter how much we argue the points here on INGO. The one thing we can all agree on however is that it is a very sad thing when a 12 YO old kid dies at the hands of the police.

 

[Kmocao]

Keyboard warrior....

So, your response to my question is because they're keyboard warriors? Derp. Its called common sense, but hey what do I know. I wasn't an elite nail-eating marine scout sniper like yourself, just a lowly sailor. Thanks for the intelligent response though, it was good for a laugh.

 

[KittySlayer]

Even if Tamir was not a thug, he as trying to act like one, no other way around it...

I based my thug comment on a one time viewing of his actions prior to the police arrival in the grainy surveillance video. It's not about race but about actions. The photos of him at home flashing gang signs looks less threatening than some Facebook post I have seen in family photos of the local preacher's kids.

One thing is for sure. it is MUCH easier to be sitting here today knowing that it was a 12 YO kid, and knowing it was an airsoft gun. If I was the cop on the scene at the time without those 2 pieces of knowledge, how would I have responded? He had to make a quick decision in less time than it takes to takes to read this sentence.

Based on the information immediately available to the officers from the radio transcripts they thought they were facing an adult with a real gun.

"a black male sitting on the swings, keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people".

"Shots fired, male down, black male, maybe 20."

 

[femurphy77]

The cops placed themselves in a poor tactical position and made a poor tactical decision. Innocent kid dead, internet juries all agog, two idiot trigger pullers (based on their previous transgressions) back on the street. Another victim in a stupid battle.