Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[foszoe]

The Greek word used that is translated taken out of the way is γίνομαι translated as ginomai.
Here is the meaning of this word.

Ginomai Definition
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made

Nothing about anything or anyone being removed, or taken out of the way.

Should possibly read this way
2 Thessalonians 2:7 - He who now restrains will do so until He is come into existence.
So the second He could very well mean the son of perdition.
Understanding this word and it's meaning sheds a very different light on this verse.

So it could be translated this way.

He who now restrains will do so until the son of perdition is come into existence.


Let me know what you all think.

I don't know if you use the NET Bible, but it can be a good resource. Here is it's translation note.

tn Grk “the one who restrains.” This gives a puzzling contrast to the impersonal phrase in v. 6 (“the thing that restrains”). The restraint can be spoken of as a force or as a person. Some have taken this to mean the Roman Empire in particular or human government in general, since these are forces that can also be seen embodied in a person, the emperor or governing head. But apocalyptic texts like Revelation and Daniel portray human government of the end times as under Satanic control, not holding back his influence. Also the power to hold back Satanic forces can only come from God. So others understand this restraint to be some force from God: the preaching of the gospel or the working of the Holy Spirit through God’s people.

tn Translator’s Note—explains the rationale for the translation and gives alternative translations, interpretive options, and other technical information.

Biblical Studies Press. 2005. The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

 

[foszoe]

Another way to study greek is to see how it was used in the OT Septuagint translation even if you believe the Hebr is the inspired word, it helps to see how words were translated in the Septuagint and other contemporary Greek Liturature.

the BDAG is an excellent resource for that.

I don't know how this will come across pasted here but here is the BDAG entry.

γίνομαι (in the form γίγνομαι [s. below] Hom.+; as γίν. since Aristot.+; and s. Kühner-Bl. II p. 391; Schwyzer I 215; KBrugmann4-AThumb, Griech. Gramm. 1913, 126; Mayser p. 165 and lit. there).
Impf. ἐγινόμην;
• fut. γενήσομαι;
• 2 aor. ἐγενόμην, 3 sg. opt. γένοιτο;
• very rare v.l. (B-D-F §81, 3) γενάμενος (GJs 6:1; 16;1; 25:1 [s. deStrycker 249]; also found in Ps.-Callisth. 1, 20, 1; 1, 41, 11; ApcEsdr 1:3 p. 24, 7 Tdf.; Mel., P. 49, 346 [Bodm.]). Pass.:
• fut. ptc. τῶν γενηθησομένων (Eccl 1:11 v.l.);
• 1 aor. ἐγενήθην (Doric, H. Gk.; Phryn. 108 Lob.; pap fr. III B.C., Mayser I/22 ’38, 157f [w. lit.]; ins [Schweizer 181; Nachmanson 168; Thieme 13]; LXX), impv. γενηθήτω;
• pf. γεγένημαι (Meisterhans3-Schw.: Att. ins since 376 B.C.; Mayser 391) uncontested use in NT only J 2:9;
• GJs 24:3 (γεγένν-pap);
• apolog. On pf. γέγονα s. Meisterhans3-Schw.:
• since 464 B.C.;
• Mayser 372;
• on the aoristic use of γέγονα s. Mlt. 145f; 238; 239;
• PChantraine, Histoire du parfait grec 1927, 233–45;
• 3 pl. γέγοναν Ro 16:7 (v.l. γεγόνασιν) and Rv 21:6;
• s. KBuresch, Γέγοναν:
• RhM 46, 1891, 193ff;
• Mlt. 52 n.;
• ptc. γεγονώς;
• plpf. 3 sg. ἐγεγόνει (1 Macc. 4:27; 2 Macc. 13:17; J 6:17; Just.), without augment γεγόνει (Ac 4:22; v.l. ἐγεγόνει), s. B-D-F §78;
• Mlt-H. 190.
• On the variation γίνομαι and γίγνομαι s. W-S. §5, 31;
• B-D-F §34, 4;
• Mlt-H. 108.
• A verb with numerous nuances relating to being and manner of being.
• Its contrast to the more static term εἰμί can be seen in Kaibel 595, 5 οὐκ ἤμην καὶ ἐγενόμην=I was not and then I came to be (cp. Ath. 4, 2 in 3 below).
① to come into being through process of birth or natural production, be born, be produced (SIG 1168, 6; Epict. 2, 17, 8; Wsd 7:3; Sir 44:9; Just., A I, 13, 3; Tat. 26, 2) J 8:58;
• w. ἔκ τινος foll. (Diod S 3, 64, 1; Appian, Basil. 5 §1; Parthenius 1, 4; Athen. 13, 37 p. 576c ἐξ ἑταίρας; PPetr III, 2, 20; PFlor 382, 38 ὁ ἐξ ἐμοῦ γενόμενος υἱός; 1 Esdr 4:16; Tob 8:6; Jos., Ant. 2, 216) Ro 1:3; Gal 4:4 (cp. 1QS 11:21).
• Also of plants 1 Cor 15:37.
• Of fruits ἔκ τινος be produced by a tree Mt 21:19 (cp. X., Mem. 3, 6, 13 ὁ ἐκ τ. χώρας γιγνόμενος σῖτος).
• W. ἀπό τινος foll. Ox 1081 (SJCh), 11 γε̣[ινόμε]νον, 14 γέγ[ονος], 14f γε[ι]νομεν[ον], 19 γέγονος.
② to come into existence, be made, be created, be manufactured, be performed
ⓐ gener. ὃ γέγονεν J 1:3c (s. ref. to Vawter, below);
• w. διά τινος vs. 3a (MTeschendorf, D. Schöpfungsged. im NT: StKr 104, ’32, 337–72).
• W. χωρίς τινος vs. 3b (IAndrosIsis, Cyrene 15 [103 A.D.] Ἐμοῦ δὲ χωρὶς γείνετʼ οὐδὲν πώποτε; Cleanthes, Hymn to Zeus 15 [Stoic. I 537=Coll. Alex. no. 1 p. 227] οὐδέ τι γίγνεται ἔργον σοῦ δίχα; note the related style 1QH 1:20; on the syntax of J 1:3f see BVawter, CBQ 25, ’63, 401–6, who favors a full stop after οὐδὲ ἕν, s. εἷς 2b and lit. cited there on J 1:3).
• W. ἔκ τινος Hb 11:3.
• Of cult images διὰ χειρῶν γινόμενοι made w. hands Ac 19:26 (cp. PRyl 231, 3 [40 A.D.] τοὺς ἄρτους γενέσθαι).
• Of miracles:
• be done, take place (Tob 11:15; Wsd 19:13 v.l. Swete) Mt 11:20f, 23; Lk 10:13; Ac 8:13.
• ἐφʼ ὃν γεγόνει τὸ σημεῖον τοῦτο on whom this miracle had been performed 4:22.
• W. mention of the author διά τινος (cp. 4 Macc 17:11) 2:43; 4:16, 30; 12:9; 24:2.
• διὰ τῶν χειρῶν τινος Mk 6:2; Ac 14:3.
• ὑπό τινος (Herodian 8, 4, 2; OGI 168, 46 [115 B.C.] τὰ γεγονότα ὑπὸ τοῦ πατρὸς φιλάνθρωπα; UPZ III, 3, 7 [116 B.C.]; PTebt 786, 14 [II B.C.]; Wsd 9:2; Jos., Ant. 8, 111; 347; Just., D. 35, 8 τῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ [Jesus] καὶ νῦν γινομένων δυνάμεων) Lk 9:7 v.l.; 13:17; 23:8; Eph 5:12.
• Of commands, instructions be fulfilled, performed γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου thy will be done (Appian, Liby. 90 §423 τὸ πρόσταγμα δεῖ γενέσθαι; Syntipas p. 25, 3 γενέσθω τὸ αἴτημα) Mt 6:10; 26:42; Lk 11:2; cp. 22:42.
• γέγονεν ὃ ἐπέταξας your order has been carried out 14:22.
• γενέσθαι τὸ αἴτημα αὐτῶν that their demand should be granted 23:24.
• Of institutions:
• be established, the Sabbath for the sake of humans Mk 2:27 (Crates, Ep. 24 οὐ γεγόνασιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι τ. ἵππων χάριν, ἀλλʼ οἱ ἵπποι τ. ἀνθρώπων).
ⓑ w. mention of the special nature of an undertaking:
• ἵνα οὕτως γένηται ἐν ἐμοί in order to have such action taken in my case 1 Cor 9:15.
• ἐν τῷ ξηρῷ τί γένηται; what will be done when it (the wood) is dry? Lk 23:31.
③ come into being as an event or phenomenon from a point of origin, arise, come about, develop (Alcaeus 23 Diehl2 [320 L-P.] καί κʼ οὐδὲν ἐκ δένος γένοιτο=nothing could originate from nothing; Ath. 4:2 τὸ ὸ̓ν οὐ γίνεται ἀλλὰ τὸ μὴ ὸ̓ν)
ⓐ of events or phenomena in nature (Sir 40:10; Ex 10:22; Job 40:23; Jos., Ant. 9, 36):
• lightning, thunder (X., An. 3, 1, 11) J 12:29; Rv 8:5; 11:19;
• calm (on the sea) Mt 8:26; Mk 4:39; Lk 8:24;
• storm Mk 4:37;
• a cloud (cp. Jos., Ant. 9, 36) 9:7; Lk 9:34; Hv 4, 3, 7;
• flood Lk 6:48;
• earthquake (Parian Marbles [III B.C.]=FGrH: 239B, 24) Mt 8:24; 28:2; Ac 16:26; Rv 6:12; 11:13; 16:18;
• darkness Mt 27:45; Mk 15:33; Lk 23:44; J 6:17;
• hail, fire Rv 8:7.
• Of a dawning day ὅτε δὲ ἡμέρα ἐγένετο (cp. περὶ ἀρχομένην ἡμέραν ‘about dawn’ Jos., Vi 15: in a related story of shipwreck) Ac 27:39.
ⓑ of other occurrences (Arrian, Anab. 4, 4, 3 τὰ ἱερὰ οὐκ ἐγίγνετο=the sacrifice did not turn out [favorably]; 1 Macc 1:25; 4:58; 9:27; 13:44; Jdth 7:29; 14:19 al.):
• complaining Ac 6:1;
• persecution, oppression Mt 13:21; 24:21; Mk 4:17; 13:19; Ac 11:19;
• discussion J 3:25; Ac 15:7;
• tumult Mt 26:5; 27:24;
• GJs 21:1 and 25:1;
• a sound Ac 2:2, 6;
• weeping 20:37;
• clamor 23:9; Mt 25:6;
• AcPl Ha 4, 6;
• famine Lk 4:25; 15:14; Ac 11:28;
• ὁρμή (q.v.) 14:5;
• war Rv 12:7;
• sharp contention Ac 15:39;
• tear (in a garment) Mt 9:16; Mk 2:21; Lk 6:49;
• silence (s. σιγή) Ac 21:40; Rv 8:1;
• στάσις (q.v. 2) Lk 23:19; Ac 15:2; 23:7, 10;
• concourse 21:30;
• confusion 19:23;
• shout, loud voice 2:6; 19:34; Rv 11:15;
• dispute Lk 22:24;
• envy, strife 1 Ti 6:4;
• astonishment AcPl Ha 4, 25;
• joy 6, 3;
• prayer 6, 7;
• offering 6, 37.
ⓒ of the various divisions of a day (Jdth 13:1; 1 Macc 5:30; 4 Macc 3:8 al.) γενομένης ἡμέρας when day came (Jos., Ant. 10, 202, Vi. 405) Lk 4:42; Ac 12:18; 16:35; 23:12; cp. Lk 6:13; 22:66; Ac 27:29, 33, 39.
• Difft. Mk 6:21 γενομένης ἡμέρας εὐκαίρου when a convenient/opportune day arrived.
• ὀψέ (cp. Gen 29:25; 1 Km 25:37) 11:19.
• ὀψίας γενομένης Mt 8:16; 14:15, 23; 16:2; 26:20; 27:57; Mk 1:32; 6:47; 14:17; 15:42; cp. J 6:16.
• πρωΐας Mt 27:1; J 21:4.
• νύξ Ac 27:27.
• ὥρας πολλῆς γενομένης when it had grown late Mk 6:35; cp. 15:33; Lk 22:14; Ac 26:4.
④ to occur as process or result, happen, turn out, take place (Dicaearch., Fgm. 102 W.: a campaign ‘takes place’; Diod S 32 Fgm. 9c τὰς εἰς τ. πατέρα γεγενημένας ἁμαρτίας=the misdeeds ‘perpetrated’ against his father; 2 Macc 1:32; 13:17; 3 Macc 1:11; 4:12; 5:17 al.)
ⓐ gener. τοῦτο ὅλον γέγονεν all this took place w. ἵνα foll. Mt 1:22; 26:56.
• ἕως ἂν πάντα γένηται until all has taken place (=is past) 5:18.
• πάντα τὰ γενόμενα everything that had happened (cp. Appian, Bell. Civ. 2, 121 §508 τὰ γενόμενα; 1 Esdr 1:10; Jdth 15:1; 1 Macc 4:20; 2 Macc 10:21; 3 Macc 1:17) 18:31; cp. 21:21; 24:6, 20, 34; 26:54; 27:54; 28:11; Mk 5:14.
• ἴδωμεν τὸ ῥῆμα τοῦτο τὸ γεγονός let us see this thing that has taken place Lk 2:15 (TestAbr A 15 p. 96, 15 [Stone p. 40]) θανάτου γενομένου since a death has occurred, i.e. since he has died Hb 9:15.
• τούτου γενομένου after this had happened (Jos., Ant. 9, 56; 129) Ac 28:9.
• τὸ γεγονός what had happened (Diod S 12, 49, 4; Appian, Bell. Civ. 2, 18 §496; Jos., Ant. 14, 292) Lk 8:34; 24:12.
• τὰ γεγονότα AcPl Ha 11, 1.
• —μὴ γένοιτο strong negation, in Paul only after rhet. questions (cp. TestJob 38:1; JosAs 25:8; Epict., index p. 540e; Lucian, Dial. Deor. 1, 2, Dial. Meretr. 13, 4; Achilles Tat. 5, 18, 4; Aristaen., Ep. 1, 27) by no means, far from it, God forbid (Goodsp., Probs., 88; AMalherbe, HTR 73, ’80, 231–41) Lk 20:16; Ro 3:4, 6, 31; 6:2, 15; 7:7, 13; 9:14; 11:1, 11; 1 Cor 6:15; Gal 2:17; 3:21.
• In more extensive phrasing (the LXX has exx. only of this usage: Gen 44:17; 3 Km 20:3 al.; cp. Josh 22:29; Demosth. 10, 27; Alciphron 2, 5, 3 al.; Ael. Aristid. 23, 80 K.=42 p. 795 D.; 30 p. 578 D.; 54 p. 679 ὃ μὴ γένοιτο) Gal 6:14;
• w. ἵνα foll. AcPl Ha 7, 40.
• τί γέγονεν ὅτι (cp. Eccl 7:10) why is it that J 14:22.
• —Of festivals:
• be held, take place, come (X., Hell. 7, 4, 28 τὰ Ὀλύμπια; 4, 5, 1; 4 Km 23:22f; 2 Macc 6:7) feast of dedication J 10:22;
• passover Mt 26:2;
• sabbath Mk 6:2;
• wedding J 2:1.
• —Abs. impv. (put twice for emphasis as Lucian, Pisc. 1 βάλλε, βάλλε; Philostrat., Ep. 35, 1 λάβε λάβε; Procop. Soph., Ep. 45) γενηθήτω γενηθήτω so let it be as a closing formula 1 Cor 16:24 v.l. (cp. Herodas 4, 85, where the sacristan closes his prayer to Asclepius with the words: ὧδε ταῦτʼ εἴη=so may it be).
• —On γένοιτο ἀμήν GJs 6:2 s. ἀμήν 1a.
ⓑ w. dat. of pers. affected
α. w. inf. foll. (UPZ 24, 29 al.; 1 Macc 13:5; Jos., Ant. 6, 232) ὅπως μὴ γένηται αὐτῷ χρονοτριβῆσαι so that he would not have to lose time Ac 20:16.
β. w. adv. or adv. phrase added (1 Esdr 6:33) κατὰ τὴν πίστιν ὑμῶν γενηθήτω ὑμῖν according to your faith let it be done to you, i.e. you believe, and you won’t be disappointed Mt 9:29; cp. 8:13.
• γένοιτό μοι κατὰ τὸ ῥῆμά σου may that happen to me as you have said Lk 1:38.
• πῶς ἐγένετο τῷ δαιμονιζομένῳ what had happened to the possessed man Mk 5:16.
• ἵνα εὖ σοι γένηται that it may be well w. you Eph 6:3 (Dt 5:16; cp. Epict. 2, 5, 29 εὖ σοι γένοιτο; Aelian, VH 9, 36).
• γενηθήτω σοι ὡς θέλεις let it be done for you as you desire, i.e. your wish is granted Mt 15:28.
γ. w. nom.
• of thing (1 Macc 4:25; Sir 51:17; Ar. 15:5) γίνεταί τινί τι someth. happens to or befalls a person Mk 9:21.
• ἵνα μὴ χεῖρόν σοί τι γένηται lest someth. worse come upon you J 5:14.
• τί ἐγένετο αὐτῷ what has happened to him Ac 7:40 (Ex 32:1, 23; AcPl Ha 5, 20).
• τὸ γεγενημένον αὐτῷ Ac 3:10 D. ἐγίνετο πάσῃ ψυχῄ φόβος fear came upon everyone (cp. Tob 11:18) 2:43.
• λύπη AcPl Ha 6, 16.
• Freq. γέγονε ἐμοί τι someth. has come to me=I have someth.:
• πώρωσις τῷ Ἰσραὴλ γέγονεν a hardening (of heart) has befallen Israel Ro 11:25;
• σωτηρία τῷ Ἰσραὴλ γεγένηται GJs 19:2;
• cp. Lk 19:9;
• διὰ τὴν ὀπτασίαν τὴν γενομένην Παύλῳ AcPl Ha 3, 15;
• ἐὰν γένηταί τινι ἀνθρώπῳ ἑκατὸν πρόβατα if a man has a hundred sheep Mt 18:12.
• τοῖς ἔξω ἐν παραβολαῖς τὰ πάντα γίνεται those outside receive everything in parables Mk 4:11.
• μήποτε γένηται ἀνταπόδομά σοι that you may receive no repayment Lk 14:12; cp. 19:9; J 15:7; 1 Cor 4:5.
ⓒ w. gen. of pers. (Diod S 16, 64, 2 τὸν τῆς Ἑλένης γεγενημένον ὅρμον=the necklace that had belonged to Helen):
• ἐγένετο ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ κόσμου τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν the kingdom of the world has come into the possession of our Lord Rv 11:15.
ⓓ γίνεταί τι ἐπί τινι someth. happens in the case of or to a person Mk 5:33 v.l.;
• ἐν v.l. This can also be expressed w. εἴς τινα Ac 28:6 or the double nom.
• τί ἄρα ὁ Πέτρος ἐγένετο what had become of Peter 12:18 (cp. Jos., Vi. 296 οἱ εἴκοσι χρυσοῖ τὶ γεγόνασιν).
ⓔ w. inf. foll., to emphasize the actual occurrence of the action denoted by the verb:
• ἐὰν γένηται εὑρεῖν αὐτό if it comes about that he finds it=if he actually finds it Mt 18:13 (s. PCatt V, 19f [=Mitt-Wilck. II/2, 372 V] ἐὰν γένηταί με ἀποδημεῖν; PAmh 135, 10; BGU 970, 5).
• ἐγένετο αὐτὸν παραπορεύεσθαι he happened to be passing Mk 2:23; cp. Lk 6:1, 6.
• ἐγένετο ἀνεῳχθῆναι τὸν οὐρανόν just then the heaven opened Lk 3:21; cp. 16:22 (ἐν τῷ ἀποθανεῖν P75); Ac 4:5; 9:3, 32, 37, 43; 11:26; 14:1; 16:16; 19:1; 21:1, 5; 22:6, 17; 27:44; 28:8 (UPZ 62, 29 [161 B.C.] γίνεται γὰρ ἐντραπῆναι).
ⓕ καὶ ἐγένετο (ἐγένετο δέ) periphrastic like וַיְהִי with וַ foll. to indicate the progress of the narrative;
• it is followed either by a conjunction like ὅτε, ὡς etc.
• , or a gen. abs., or a prepositional constr., and joined to it is a finite verb w. καί (Jdth 5:22; 10:1; Sus 19 Theod.; 1 Macc 1:1; 5:1; Gen 39:7, 13, 19; 42:35; JosAs 11:1; 22:1; AscIs 3:2) Mt 9:10; Mk 2:15 v.l.; Lk 2:15; 5:1, 12, 17; 8:1, 22; 14:1.
• —Without the second καί (Jdth 2:4; 12:10; 13:12; 1 Macc 6:8; 7:2 v.l.; 9:23; Sus 28 Theod.; Bel 18 Theod.; TestAbr B 1 p. 105, 1 [Stone p. 58] and 6 p. 109, 27 [Stone p. 66]; TestJob 31:1; JosAs 1:1; 3:1) Mt 7:28; 11:1; 13:53; 19:1; 26:1; Mk 1:9; 4:4; Lk 1:8, 23, 41, 59; 2:1, 6, 46; 6:12 al. At times it is followed by an inf. The phrase is usually omitted in translation;
• older versions transl. it came to pass.
• —Mlt. 16f;
• MJohannessohn, Das bibl.
• καὶ ἐγένετο u. s. Geschichte:
• ZVS 53, 1926, 161–212 (LXX);
• s. MDibelius, Gnomon 3, 1927, 446–50;
• HPernot, Études sur la langue des Évangiles 1927, 189–99;
• KBeyer, Semitische Syntax im NT, ’62, 29–62;
• JReiling, BT 16, ’65, 153–63;
• EDelebecque, Études grecques sur l’Évangile de Luc ’76, 123–65.
⑤ to experience a change in nature and so indicate entry into a new condition, become someth.
ⓐ w. nouns (Lamellae Aur. Orphicae ed. AOlivieri 1915, p. 16, 5 θεὸς ἐγένου ἐξ ἀνθρώπου [IV/III]; Arrian, Anab. 5, 26, 5; Sir 51:2; 1 Esdr 4:26; Wsd 8:2; 4 Macc 16:6; En 103:11; Tat. 19, 2 τοῦ θανάτου καταφρονηταὶ γίνεσθε):
• ὅπως γένησθε υἱοὶ τοῦ πατρὸς ὑμῶν that you may become sons of your father Mt 5:45;
• ποιήσω ὑμᾶς γενέσθαι ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων I will turn you into fishers of people Mk 1:17;
• a traitor Lk 6:16;
• friends 23:12 (cp. Jos., Ant. 11, 121);
• children of God J 1:12;
• children of light 12:36;
• a Christian Ac 26:29;
• apostle AcPlCor 2:4;
• a father Ro 4:18;
• a fool 1 Cor 3:18;
• a spectacle 4:9;
• a man, an adult 13:11 (Tob 1:9);
• a curse Gal 3:13.
• οὐχ ἑαυτὸν ἐδόξασεν γενηθῆναι ἀρχιερέα he did not exalt himself to be made high priest Hb 5:5;
• ἐγένετο ἀντὶ αὐτοῦ Σαμουήλ Samuel became (high priest) in his place GJs 10:2.
• W. double nom.
• (Ps.-Apollod., Epit. 3, 15 δράκων λίθος ἐγένετο; Quint. Smyrn. 12, 507; Bel 28; 4 Macc 18:7) οἱ λίθοι ἄρτοι γίνονται the stones turn into loaves Mt 4:3.
• τὸ αἵμα αὐτοῦ λίθον γεγενημένον GJs 24:3.
• ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο J 1:14 (the reverse PBerl 13044, col. III, 28ff [UWilcken, SBBerlAk 1923, 161f] τί ποιῶν ἄν τις γένοιτο θεός.
• τὸ ὕδωρ γενήσεται πηγή 4:14.
• ἡ περιτομὴ ἀκροβυστία γέγονεν Ro 2:25.
• ἐγενόμην ἐγὼ διάκονος I became a courier Col 1:23 (cp. Herodian 2, 6, 8 ἀνὴρ ἔπαρχος γενόμενος).
• —Also γ. εἴς τι (Menand., Peric. 49f Kö. [169f S.] τὸ κακὸν εἰς ἀγαθὸν ῥέπει γινόμενον; 1 Km 4:9; Jdth 5:18; 1 Macc 2:11, 43; 3:58; En 19:2 al.; B-D-F §145, 1):
• ἐγένετο εἰς δένδρον it became a tree Lk 13:19;
• εἰς κεφαλὴν γωνίας Mt 21:42; Mk 12:10; Lk 20:17; Ac 4:11; 1 Pt 2:7 (all in ref. to Ps 117:22);
• εἰς χαρὰν γ. change (or, turn) into joy J 16:20.
• εἰς οὐδέν come to nothing Ac 5:36.
• εἰς παγίδα Ro 11:9 (Ps 68:23);
• εἰς κενὸν γ. be done in vain 1 Th 3:5.
• εἰς ἄψινθον Rv 8:11.
• Cp. AcPl Ha 6, 6.
• Also w. γίνεσθαι omitted:
• εἰς κατάκριμα (sc. ἐγένετο τὸ κρίμα) Ro 5:18.
ⓑ used w. an adj. to paraphrase the passive (Jdth 11:11; 1 Esdr 7:3; 2 Macc 3:34; Sus 64 Theod.; En 103:9; Ath. 37, 1 πάντων ὑποχειρίων γιγνομένων):
• ἁπαλὸν γ. become tender Mt 24:32; Mk 13:28;
• ἀπειθῆ γ. Ac 26:19;
• ἀποσυνάγωγον γ. be expelled fr. the synagogue J 12:42;
• ἄφαντον γ. disappear Lk 24:31;
• σκωληκόβρωτον γ. be eaten by worms Ac 12:23;
• γνωστόν, φανερὸν γ. become known (Just., A I, 63, 6) Mk 6:14; Ac 1:19; 9:42; 19:17; 1 Cor 3:13; 14:25; Phil 1:13;
• δόκιμον γ. pass the test Js 1:12;
• ἑδραῖον γ. 1 Cor 15:58;
• ἔκδηλον γ. 2 Ti 3:9;
• AcPlCor 1:16;
• ἔξυπνον γ. Ac 16:27 (1 Esdr 3:3=Jos., Ant. 11:34);
• s. ἀπόπληκτος, ἐλεύθερος, ἐμφανής, ἔμφοβος, ἐνεργής, ἔντρομος, καθαρός, μέγας, περιδάκρυτος, περικρατής, πλήρης, πρηνής, τυφλός, ὑγιής, ὑπήκοος, ὑπόδικος, φανερός 1.
ⓒ w. ἐν of a state of being (Stoic. III 221, 16; Diod S 20, 62, 4 ἐν ἀνέσει γ.; Plut., Tit. Flam. 378 [16, 1] ἐν ὀργῇ γ.; Lucian, Tim. 28; PPetr II, 20; III, 12 [252 B.C.] ἐν ἐπισχέσει γ.; BGU 5 II, 19 ἐν νόσῳ; POxy 471 IV, 77f; 4 Km 9:20; 1 Macc 1:27 v.l.; Sus 8 Theod.; Jos., Bell. 1, 320, Ant. 16, 372; Mel., P. 18 ἐν πόνοις … ἐν πληγαῖς etc.) ἐν ἀγωνίᾳ Lk 22:44.
• ἐν ἐκστάσει Ac 22:17.
• ἐν πνεύματι under the Spirit’s influence Rv 1:10; 4:2;
• AcPl Ha 6, 28.
• ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων be like human beings Phil 2:7.
• ἐν ἀσθενείᾳ, φόβῳ, τρόμῳ 1 Cor 2:3.
• ἐν δόξῃ 2 Cor 3:7.
• ἐν ἑαυτῷ γ. come to one’s senses (Soph., Phil. 950; X., An. 1, 5, 17; Polyb. 1, 49, 8; Chariton 3, 9, 11) Ac 12:11;
• γ. ἐν Χριστῷ be a Christian Ro 16:7.
• Cp. 7 below.
⑥ to make a change of location in space, move
ⓐ εἴς τι (Hdt. 5, 87 al.; Philo, Op. M. 86; 2 Macc 1:13; also ἐν: Just., A II, 9, 3 ἐγενόμεθα ἐν ἐκείνῳ τῷ τόπω):
• εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα γ. (Jos., Ant. 10, 42) Ac 20:16; 21:17; 25:15.
• εἰς τὸν ἀγρόν Hv 3, 1, 4.
• Of a voice:
• ἐγένετο εἰς τὰ ὦτά μου reached my ear Lk 1:44.
• Fig. (cp. Bar 4:28) of Abraham’s blessing εἰς τὰ ἔθνη come to the Gentiles Gal 3:14; cp. 2 Cor 8:14 (s. περίσσευμα 1, ὑστέρημα 1).
ⓑ ἔκ τινος (Job 28:2):
• γ. ἐκ μέσου be removed, Lat. e medio tolli (cp. Ps.-Aeschin., Ep. 12, 6 ἐκ μέσου γενομένων ἐκείνων; Plut., Timol. 238 [5, 3]; Achilles Tat. 2, 27, 2) 2 Th 2:7 (HFulford, ET 23, 1912, 40f: ‘leave the scene’).
• Of a voice fr. heaven:
• ἐκ τ. οὐρανῶν γ. sound forth fr. heaven (2 Macc 2:21; cp. Da 4:31 Theod.) Mk 1:11; Lk 3:22; 9:35;
• cp. vs. 36.
ⓒ ἐπί τι:
• ἐπὶ τὸ μνημεῖον go to the tomb Lk 24:22;
• ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀναβαθμούς when he was at the steps Ac 21:35.
• Of fear that befalls someone (2 Macc 12:22) Lk 1:65; 4:36; Ac 5:5.
• Of ulcers:
• break out on someone Rv 16:2 (Ex 9:10f).
• Of divine commands:
• go out to someone Lk 3:2.
• ἐπί is somet. used w. the gen. (Appian, Liby. 93 §440; Alex. Aphr., Mixt. II 2 p. 213, 21) instead of the acc.:
• γενόμενος ἐπὶ τοῦ τόπου when he had arrived at the place 22:40 (Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 327, 18 ἐπὶ τ. τόπων γινόμενος).
• —J 6:21.
ⓓ w. κατά and gen. of place:
• τὸ γενόμενον ῥῆμα καθʼ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας the message that has spread throughout all Judea Ac 10:37.
• W. acc. of place (X., Cyr. 7, 1, 15; Apollon. Paradox. 3 κατὰ τόπους γ.; Jos., Ant. I, 174; cp. 2 Macc 9:8):
• γενόμενος κατὰ τὸν τόπον Lk 10:32;
• γενόμενοι κατὰ τὴν Κνίδον Ac 27:7.
ⓔ w. πρός and acc. of the direction and goal (PLond III, 962, 1 p. 210 [III A.D.] γενοῦ πρὸς Ἄταϊν τὸν ποιμένα; PFlor 180, 45) 1 Cor 2:3; 2J 12.
• Of divine instructions be given to someone (Gen 15:1, 4; Jer 1:2, 11; 13:8; Ezk 6:1; Hos 1:1; cp. ἐπί w. acc.) J 10:35; Ac 7:31 v.l.; 10:13; 13:32.
ⓕ w. σύν and the dat. join someone (X., Cyr. 5, 3, 8; 2 Macc 13:13) Lk 2:13.
ⓖ w. ἐγγύς (X., An. 1, 8, 8, Cyr. 7, 1, 7; cp. γίν. πλησίον Philo, Mos. 1, 228; Jos., Ant. 4, 40):
• ἐγγὺς τοῦ πλοίου γίνεσθαι come close to the boat J 6:19.
• Fig. of the relation of believers to Christ:
• come near Eph 2:13.
ⓗ w. ὧδε come here J 6:25;
ⓘ ἔμπροσθέν τινος γ. J 1:15, 30 s. on ἔμπροσθεν 1bζ and ὀπίσω 2b.
⑦ to come into a certain state or possess certain characteristics, to be, prove to be, turn out to be (on relation to the forms of εἰμί [here and in 8–10] s. ALink, StKr 69, 1896, 420ff).
• Used w. the nom.
• (Wsd 16:3; Jdth 16:21; Sir 31:22; 1 Macc 3:58) γίνεσθε φρόνιμοι be prudent Mt 10:16.
• ἄκαρπος γίνεται 13:22; Mk 4:19.
• —W. other words:
• vs. 22; 9:50; Lk 1:2; 2:2; 6:36 and very oft. Freq. the dat. of advantage (dat. commodi) is added (1 Macc 10:47; 2 Macc 7:37; 4 Macc 6:28; 12:17):
• ἀγαπητόν τινι γ. be dear to someone 1 Th 2:8.
• ἀπρόσκοπον γ. τινι be inoffensive to someone 1 Cor 10:32;
• γ. τινι μαθητήν J 15:8;
• μισθαποδότην γ. τινι be a rewarder of someone Hb 11:6;
• γ. ὁδηγόν τινι Ac 1:16.
• Cp. παρηγορία, σημεῖον, τύπος.
• —γ. ὁμοθυμαδόν come together in unanimity or reach unanimity Ac 15:25.—τὶ γίνεταί τινί τι a thing results in someth. for someone τὸ ἀγαθὸν ἐμοὶ ἐγ.
• θάνατος; Ro 7:13.
• ἡ ἐξουσία πρόσκομμα τοῖς ἀσθενέσιν 1 Cor 8:9.
• —γίνομαι ὡς, ὥσπερ, ὡσεί τις (Ps 21:15; 31:9; 37:15; 82:11; 87:5 al.) be, become, show oneself like Mt 6:16; 10:25; 18:3; 28:4; Lk 22:26, 44; 1 Cor 4:13; 9:20f; Gal 4:12.
• καθὼς ἐγένετο … οὕτως ἔσται as it was … so it will be Lk 17:26, 28.
• οὐ χρὴ ταῦτα οὕτως γίνεσθαι this should not be so Js 3:10.
• ὁσίως καὶ δικαίως καὶ ἀμέμπτως ὑμῖν ἐγενήθημεν we proved/showed ourselves … toward you 1 Th 2:10.
• —In statements pert. to age (Aristoxenus, Fgm. 16 γεγονότα [sc. τὸν Πυθαγόραν] ἐτῶν τεσσαράκοντα; Demetr. of Phaleron [IV–III B.C.], Fgm. 153 Wehrli [’49]; Demetr: 722 Fgm. 1, 1 Jac.; Jos., Ant. 10, 50) ἐτῶν δώδεκα Lk 2:42; cp. 1 Ti 5:9.—Here prob. also belongs ἐγένετο γνώμης he decided Ac 20:3 (cp. Plut., Phoc. 752 [23, 4] ἐλπίδος μεγάλης γ.; Cass. Dio 61, 14 τ. ἐπιθυμίας γ.; Jos., Bell. 6, 287).
⑧ to be present at a given time, be there ([Ps.-]Jos., Ant. 18, 63) Mk 1:4; J 1:6, hence exist (Diod S 3, 52, 4 γέγονε γένη γυναικῶν=there have been nations of women; Appian, Maced. 18 §3 τὸ χρυσίον τὸ γιγνόμενον=the gold that was at hand; Bar 3:26; 2 Macc 10:24) Ro 11:5; 1J 2:18.
• ἐγένετο there lived Lk 1:5.
• ἔν τινι 2 Pt 2:1.
• ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς Rv 16:18 (Da 12:1 Theod.).
⑨ to be closely related to someone or someth., belong to
ⓐ gen. of the possessor (Appian, Bell. Civ. 5, 79 §336 a slave γεγένητο Πομπηίου=had belonged to Pompey: B-D-F §162, 7) belong to someone Lk 20:14, 33 (Appian, Bell. Civ. 2, 83 §350 γυνὴ Κράσσου γεγενημένη=who had been the wife of [the younger] Crassus).
ⓑ w. dat. of pers. belong to someone (PPetr II, 40b, 7 [277 B.C.]; O. Wilck II, 1530, 2f [120 B.C.] τὸ γινόμενόν μοι=what belongs to me) of a woman ἀνδρὶ ἑτέρῳ Ro 7:3f (cp. Ruth 1:12f; Dt 24:2).
ⓒ w. prep. μετά τινος (Josh 2:19) Ac 9:19; 20:18.
• οἱ μετʼ αὐτοῦ γενόμενοι his intimate friends Mk 16:10.
• πρός τινα be w. someone 1 Cor 16:10 (make him [Timothy] feel quite at home with you Mft.) ὑπό τινα be under the authority of someone or someth. (1 Macc 10:38) Gal 4:4.
ⓓ Here perh. belongs ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ γίνεται it is not a matter of private interpretation 2 Pt 1:20.
⑩ to be in or at a place, be in, be there
ⓐ ἔν τινι to designate one’s present or future place of residence (X., An. 4, 3, 29; Appian, Bell. Civ. 5, 4 §15 Ἀντώνιος ἐν Ἐφέσῳ γενόμενος; Aelian, VH 4, 15; Herodian 2, 2, 5; POxy 283, 11; 709, 6 ἐν Μένφει γενόμενος; PTebt 416, 3; BGU 731 II, 6 ἐν οἰκίᾳ μου; Num 11:35; Judg 17:4; 1 Ch 14:17; Jdth 5:7 al. Demetr.: 722 Fgm. 1, 18 Jac.) Mt 26:6; Mk 9:33; Ac 7:38; 13:5; 2 Ti 1:17; Rv 1:9;
• AcPl Ha 7, 23.
ⓑ w. adv.:
• ἐκεῖ (X., An.




Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, Walter Bauer, and F. Wilbur Gingrich. 2000. In A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., 196–99. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

 

[DadSmith]

I don't know if you use the NET Bible, but it can be a good resource. Here is it's translation note.

tn Grk “the one who restrains.” This gives a puzzling contrast to the impersonal phrase in v. 6 (“the thing that restrains”). The restraint can be spoken of as a force or as a person. Some have taken this to mean the Roman Empire in particular or human government in general, since these are forces that can also be seen embodied in a person, the emperor or governing head. But apocalyptic texts like Revelation and Daniel portray human government of the end times as under Satanic control, not holding back his influence. Also the power to hold back Satanic forces can only come from God. So others understand this restraint to be some force from God: the preaching of the gospel or the working of the Holy Spirit through God’s people.

tn Translator’s Note—explains the rationale for the translation and gives alternative translations, interpretive options, and other technical information.

Biblical Studies Press. 2005. The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press.

It's the last word of the verse. It just doesn't fit properly in the translation that has been provided.


Now with the proper translation and meaning of that Greek word it has nothing to do with holding anything back.

Ginomai Definition
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made

Nothing in its meaning says to holding back, removed, or taken out of the way etc etc. The other 46 times it's used in the new covenant it has or uses the above meaning I just posted.
I'm thinking our English translations have it completely wrong .

2 Thessalonians 2:7 NASB
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is removed.


2 Thessalonians 2:7 NKJV
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.


2 Thessalonians 2:7 YLT
for the secret of the lawlessness doth already work, only he who is keeping down now [will hinder] -- till he may be out of the way,


2 Thessalonians 2:7 LSB
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

 

[foszoe]

It's the last word of the verse. It just doesn't fit properly in the translation that has been provided.
View attachment 360997

Now with the proper translation and meaning of that Greek word it has nothing to do with holding anything back.

Ginomai Definition
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made

Nothing in its meaning says to holding back, removed, or taken out of the way etc etc. The other 46 times it's used in the new covenant it has or uses the above meaning I just posted.
I'm thinking our English translations have it completely wrong .

In that long BDAG post, I do have several of the resources that are cited in the BDAG entry if you want to see them in orignal Greek or English translation.

 

[DadSmith]

In that long BDAG post, I do have several of the resources that are cited in the BDAG entry if you want to see them in orignal Greek or English translation.

I edited to show what different English translations have for the end of that verse. Look above.

The part in red i just edited it again.

 

[foszoe]

5 Do you not remember that, yet being with you, I said these things to you?
6 And you know what holds him back now, so that in his own time he will be revealed.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already working; only he who presently holds back will do so until he be gone out of the midst.


St. Paul is here reluctant to speak openly and so resorts to telling them to recall that he said these things to them when he was with them. Also, he does not speak openly of what now holds back the man of lawlessness. He will only recall for them again that they know this and that he who presently holds back, though unnamed in this epistle, will do so until he be gone out of the midst of them. The mystery of lawlessness, a reality known for what it is only by the initiated Christians, is already working (Gr. energeo, the word usually used for the working of supernatural power; compare Matt. 14:2). By the mystery of lawlessness, St. Paul means the satanic schemes and counterfeits of the evil one, with all their lying, deluding influence, which seek to oppose the rule and law of God. This opposition to the truth is already present in the world (1 John 2:18; 4:3), operating like demonic leaven to leaven the loaf of the world. It will continue to do so until the restrainer who holds back is removed from their midst.
What was this restraining power and why was St. Paul so reluctant to write openly of its removal? The restraining power was almost certainly the Roman Empire, the secular and stable society and world order of that day. This was the understanding of Tertullian, a church apologist who wrote in the late second century. He wrote that the Christians believed that “a mighty shock impending over the whole earth—in fact the very End of all things—is only slowed by the continued existence of the Roman Empire” (Apology, ch. 32). This then would explain why the apostle was so reluctant to write of its removal, for such things, written down for all hostile eyes to see, could easily be interpreted as treason.
To speak of the emperor, he who presently holds back a succeeding power, as being taken out of their midst would look very much like talk of assassination to the governing authorities—especially coming from the Christians, who were already under suspicion for exactly that kind of treason (compare Acts 17:7). Thus St. Paul alludes to the Roman emperor and the empire without actually naming them, telling the Thessalonians instead to remember what he had told them before.
In what sense, though, was the Roman Empire the restraining force holding back the revelation of the antichrist? For the Roman Empire and its emperor have fallen, the last Roman Byzantine Emperor ending his rule with the fall of Constantinople in 1453. It would appear that St. Paul was thinking, not so much of the Roman Empire per se, but the established social order and security it represented in his day. It was not the emperor in himself, but what he embodied, that held the antichrist at bay. For the antichrist would arise from the ashes of social anarchy, perhaps promising to restore lost order and save the world from unthinkable chaos. As long as societal order stood firm (represented and embodied in St. Paul’s day by the Roman Empire), the man of lawlessness had no chance to seize power and seduce the world. It was only after the collapse of all social order that he could arise.
What this all meant for the Thessalonians of that time was that, as long as the established Roman order still stood firm around them, there was no immediate cause to be shaken from their mind. The Day of the Lord, with its accompanying signs, could not be already upon them because the precursor of the man of lawlessness had not yet been revealed. Until this final rebellion occurred, they should not expect the return of Christ.
In saying, however, that the apostasy from social order and the rise of the antichrist must first occur before the Lord will return, Paul does not mean that the Lord’s Coming is not imminent. By saying that the Lord’s Coming is imminent and “near” (Phil. 4:5), Paul means that history does not have to evolve any more before that Coming. They do not have to wait to see the gradual unfolding of sweeping historical developments (such as the gradual spread of literacy or the elimination of poverty). The Lord’s return will come as an interruption of the flow of history, not as its culmination. This is what the apostles mean by saying He will come “as a thief in the night” (1 Thess. 5:4). The events that will constitute the immediate precursors of the return (the apostasy and the revelation of the antichrist) will not come as a gradual unfolding. They will occur suddenly, without warning (like the unforeseen crash of the stock market in 1929). Like the signs in the sun, moon, and stars (Luke 21:25), they form part of the crisis and cosmic convulsion which itself constitutes the end.


Farley, Lawrence R. 2010. Words of Fire: The Early Epistles of St. Paul to the Thessalonians and the Galatians. The Orthodox Bible Study Companion. Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing.

Farley, Lawrence R. 2010. Words of Fire: The Early Epistles of St. Paul to the Thessalonians and the Galatians. The Orthodox Bible Study Companion. Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing.

 

[BugI02]

Monday, I go in for my first "major" surgery. I am having a knee replacement. It is expected to take all day and at the end of it they expect me to walk out. First I am thankful that medicine has advanced that far but that doesn't alleviate anxiety

For me, the surgery couldn't happen at a better time. Tonight, after Vespers, I can make my confession. Tomorrow is the Feast of Pentecost where I will receive anointing with Holy Chrism, and Monday is Holy Spirit day. If I do go, I couldn't be more ready.

Wife is well planned for and taken care of financially if something does happen. I won't say goes wrong because my prayer is always "Thy will be done."

Surgery is scheduled for 930 am. Appreciate prayers that the the Lord's will be done. If He wills I wake up, let it be. If He wills I heal quickly, let it be, but most of all pray for what I CAN control with the Lord's help. May I not wallow in self pity from pain, may I not be a burden on my wife needlessly, may I not fall into complaining, whining, anger, resentment, or any other temptation but that, if I awake, I thank God in all things, that I live in a time that this surgery is even possible, that I am healthy enough to have it, and that I use this "down" time to read God's word, pray earnestly, and become ever more grateful that I have been given a life to live.

Prayers for your health and recovery, foszoe

Sounds like you're giving up INGO, though, which seems a bit extreme

 

[DadSmith]

In that long BDAG post, I do have several of the resources that are cited in the BDAG entry if you want to see them in orignal Greek or English translation.

W. ἀπό τινος foll. Ox 1081 (SJCh), 11 γε̣[ινόμε]νον, 14 γέγ[ονος], 14f γε[ι]νομεν[ον], 19 γέγονος.
② to come into existence, be made, be created, be manufactured, be performed

ἐν τῷ ξηρῷ τί γένηται; what will be done when it (the wood) is dry? Lk 23:31.
③ come into being as an event or phenomenon from a point of origin, arise, come about, develop

It pretty much says what I thought it did.

Every commentators views is not on the proper translation of the word but rather on the wrong translation of it as: until He is removed, taken out of the way, etc.

What I'm saying is looking at the other verses in the Bible where this word is used it's translated according to the proper meaning of the word. However, here it's not.

No commentators seem to pick that up. They just go with what everyone else is saying.


So it could possibly read this way.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 - He who now restrains will do so until He is come into existence.

Or

2 Thessalonians 2:7 - He who now restrains will do so until He arises, appears in history, comes upon the stage of men, appears in public.

Take you pick of what seems best grammatically.

Nothing about taking out of the way or bring removed.

Many associate this with the Church, or possibly the Holy Spirit being removed or taken out of the way. Yet it doesn't say that with the original Greek word used here, and it's meaning.
It could literally mean thee antichrist comes into being.

 

[Vodnik4]

Monday, I go in for my first "major" surgery. I am having a knee replacement. It is expected to take all day and at the end of it they expect me to walk out. First I am thankful that medicine has advanced that far but that doesn't alleviate anxiety

For me, the surgery couldn't happen at a better time. Tonight, after Vespers, I can make my confession. Tomorrow is the Feast of Pentecost where I will receive anointing with Holy Chrism, and Monday is Holy Spirit day. If I do go, I couldn't be more ready.

Wife is well planned for and taken care of financially if something does happen. I won't say goes wrong because my prayer is always "Thy will be done."

Surgery is scheduled for 930 am. Appreciate prayers that the the Lord's will be done. If He wills I wake up, let it be. If He wills I heal quickly, let it be, but most of all pray for what I CAN control with the Lord's help. May I not wallow in self pity from pain, may I not be a burden on my wife needlessly, may I not fall into complaining, whining, anger, resentment, or any other temptation but that, if I awake, I thank God in all things, that I live in a time that this surgery is even possible, that I am healthy enough to have it, and that I use this "down" time to read God's word, pray earnestly, and become ever more grateful that I have been given a life to live.

Brother, praying for you. His will be done.

You are in a good place, right after we celebrate the Trinity.

Hope to see you on the other side.

 

[foszoe]

Awake. Still "hate" cyclists and HOAs so mind altering drugs not working.

 

[foszoe]

Awake. Still "hate" cyclists and HOAs so mind altering drugs not working.

@Vodnik4

It was at St Francis so they did try to trick me into the filioque, but I resisted like St Mark of Ephesus.

Well maybe nowhere near in that league.

 

[Magyars]

Just discovered this.
On older quarters G. Washington faces the motto "in God we trust"
New quarter's, G. washington has hid head turned away from the motto.
Small changes.......

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Say what you want about Catholics, they sure know how to make a beautiful church…..

 

[JettaKnight]

Say what you want about Catholics, they sure know how to make a beautiful church…..

Is there a backstory to this?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Is there a backstory to this?

Just watching a documentary this evening and they were showing the inside of some Cathedrals in Rome.

 

[BugI02]

Is there a backstory to this?

Matthew 16:18?

 

[chipbennett]

Say what you want about Catholics, they sure know how to make a beautiful church…..

La Sagrada Familia is absolutely awe-inspiring. I will visit/tour every time I'm in Barcelona.

 

[DadSmith]

Say what you want about Catholics, they sure know how to make a beautiful church…..

Are you talking about the ekklesia, or the synagogue?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Are you talking about the ekklesia, or the synagogue?

Definitely had to Google ekklesia.

Are you referring to the actual service/mass vs the architecture?

If that’s the case, I was referring to the aesthetics of the architecture.

 

[DadSmith]

Definitely had to Google ekklesia.

Are you referring to the actual service/mass vs the architecture?

If that’s the case, I was referring to the aesthetics of the architecture.

Ekklesia is translated church. I know many confuse the building with the congregation.
Synagogue is a meeting place so that would be the building or wherever the church/ekklesia/congregation would meet.
Synagogue is Greek some think it's Hebrew.