Civil Religious Discussions : all things Christianity II

[foszoe]

Had an interesting discussion with honest believing Baptist co-worker.
The difference in approaches to faith was amusing.
Just a simple example: While he viewed most people around as “unbelievers in need of saving” with focus on church growth, especially in ze Old Country most people around are assumed to be Orthodox who might be astray, and the church is focused on survival against outside forces of first Islam and then Communism. East and West.

Yes hard to be a practicing Christian when all the Christians are getting slaughtered. I find these new discoveries are mostly a way to trip up nominal Christians who place their faith in a Koranic interpretation of the Bible. These media companies know that type of faith can be easily shaken with this trash they put out for click bait around every Holy Day of the year. Especially Christmas and Easter.

None of these books are "discovered". The Church knew them all and rejected them all when the Church was deciding what books would be in the Bible.

I have the Baptist Manual for their missionaries on how to "convert" Orthodox in Orthodox countries somewheres. Close to a hundred pages on how to get people to apostasize.

 

[DadSmith]

Att about the 9th hour on the day before Ascension, which is always on a Thursday, we sing the Resurrectional hymns of Pascha for the last time.

Christ is risen from the dead,
trampling down death by death,
and upon those in the tombs
bestowing life!

Having seen the Resurrection of Christ, let us worship the Holy Lord Jesus, the only sinless one. We worship your Cross, O Christ, and we hymn and glorify your holy Resurrection. For you are our God, we know no other but you, we name you by name. Come all the faithful, let us worship the holy Resurrection of Christ; for behold through the Cross, joy has come in all the world. Ever blessing the Lord, we hymn his Resurrection. For having endured the Cross for us, he has destroyed death by death.

We don’t sing those hymns again until next Pascha.

Then Wed night, we sing the Psalm of Creation, Psalm 103 (104). Followed by intercessory prayers for everyone and everything.

We sing Psalm 140/141 (141/142). Interspersed with verses. (Hebrew numbering in ())

We read Isaiah 2:2-3; 62:10-63:3, 7-9; Zachariah 14:1, 4, 8-11.

We say evening prayers

Vouchsafe, O Lord, to keep us this evening without sin. Blessed art Thou, O Lord, the God of our fathers, and praised and glorified is Thy Name forever. Amen. Let Thy mercy be upon us, O Lord, even as we have set our hope on Thee. Blessed art Thou, O Lord; teach me Thy statutes. Blessed art Thou, O Master; make me to understand Thy statutes. Blessed art Thou, O Holy One; enlighten me with Thy statutes. Thy mercy, O Lord, endures forever. O despise not the works of Thy hands. To Thee belongs worship, to Thee belongs praise, to Thee belongs glory: to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit; now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

And other supplicatory prayers.

Finally we get to sing the hymns of Ascension

“O Christ God, You have ascended in Glory, / granting joy to Your disciples by the promise of the Holy Spirit. / Through the blessing they were assured / that You are the Son of God, / the Redeemer of the world!

When You had fulfilled the dispensation for our sake, / and united earth to heaven: / You ascended in glory, O Christ our God, / not being parted from those who love You, / but remaining with them and crying: / “I am with you and no one will be against you!”

On Thursday Morning we gather for Ascension and again say our prayers and intercessions, sing the hymns of Ascension then read

Mark 16:9-20; Acts 1:1-12; and Luke 24:36-53

Hear the Ascension Homily and receive communion and are dismissed into the world.

All of this is done to celebrate Christ’s bodily resurrection and ascension to sit at the right hand of the Father until all his enemies are put under his feet (Psalm 110). The paradox is that has already taken place mystically, death has been conquered, but yet we are still here and go on living.

It is important to note that it is a bodily resurrection. That is a testament to Christ being fully human and fully divine. The body is not something to be discarded but reverenced. One day, we too will be bodily resurrected and ascend.

We also begin to look forward to the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, always on a Sunday and always 50 days after Pascha so week from tomorrow for us.

Then we are reminded that Christ says as I leave so also I will come again so we are reminded to be watching and waiting for the second coming. In the Icon of the Ascension. All these themes are present. Christ is depicted in a mandorla, but his robes are motionless. We can not tell if he is coming or going. In the icons of the last judgement, Christ is depicted exactly in the same manner. So you can’t tell from the image if he is coming or going.

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Also in the icon, all the disciples are gazing up into the heavens, except Mary. Often in icons, Mary represents the Church. She is calm. She is pondering all these things in her heart, as we should and are in the church services.

So we are celebrating the culmination of Christ’s Incarnation, Death, Resurrection in his final act, Ascension.

If this doesn’t drive home the point of the Ascension is that he goes to prepare the way for us, the readings on the following day are from

John 14:1-11, a powerful reminder that Christ is coming.

Other ways to celebrate besides the Church services are its a great day to go fly a kite, watch clouds, ask myself do am I ready for the second coming, if the cloud I am watching suddenly bears Christ himself back to earth? Have I been doing what Christ has asked of me? For Christ himself says whoever has my commandments and keeps him, loves me. Do I love Christ?

Then prepare for the coming of His Holy Spirit on Pentecost!

Thanks for the write up.

 

[historian]

anybody here celebrate ascension 40 days after easter or just me?

As a member of the true catholic church we do. It is always a poorly attended Thursday night service.

 

[foszoe]

As a member of the true catholic church we do. It is always a poorly attended Thursday night service.

Which one? You change it up all the time....I think you misspelt cafeteria church

 

[historian]

Which one? You change it up all the time....I think you misspelt cafeteria church

Lutherans. We didn't leave after all. It isn't always easy, but I'm very happy personally.

 

[DragonGunner]

 

[Quiet Observer]

Which one? You change it up all the time....I think you misspelt cafeteria church

I would say that there are individual members of virtually all religions that fit the description of cafeteria.

 

[Brad69]

Again why so many of people claim to be a leader are doing this ?

Texas megachurch pastor resigns after woman says he sexually abused her in the 1980s

The pastor of a Texas megachurch has resigned after a woman said he had sexually abused her on multiple occasions in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12.

apnews.com

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Again why so many of people claim to be a leader are doing this ?

Texas megachurch pastor resigns after woman says he sexually abused her in the 1980s

The pastor of a Texas megachurch has resigned after a woman said he had sexually abused her on multiple occasions in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12.

apnews.com

I know we’ve already been through this.

“So many” is probably a little misleading.

I would venture to say 99.999% of Christian leaders don’t do those things.

That .001% makes national headlines though.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Also, I can’t imagine the headline that would’ve been written about King David. Phew…..

 

[Brad69]

Your right CP it’s not the numbers I just can’t wrap my mind around it.

You want be a leader but you don’t set the example.

King David was a wild man.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

King David was a wild man.

True. Also a man after God’s own heart.

 

[JettaKnight]

Again why so many of people claim to be a leader are doing this ?

Texas megachurch pastor resigns after woman says he sexually abused her in the 1980s

The pastor of a Texas megachurch has resigned after a woman said he had sexually abused her on multiple occasions in the 1980s, beginning when she was 12.

apnews.com

Because their still sinful humans.

Leaders are never infallible.


And didn't you get the memo? Character, decency, respect for fellow humans, and respect for the law all are no longer required for leaders - the only thing that matters is if they can do the stuff I want done.

 

[DadSmith]

Aren't you glad for a country that doesn't punish you for being a disciple of Christ.

Add this man to your prayers, and others like him around the world that the Holy Spirit will comfort them daily.

 

[BugI02]

Because their still sinful humans.

Leaders are never infallible.


And didn't you get the memo? Character, decency, respect for fellow humans, and respect for the law all are no longer required for leaders - the only thing that matters is if they can do the stuff I want done.

Those qualities were NEVER required of leaders, only the appearance of them. Politicians have been profiteering and stepping out on their wives since time immemorial

 

[DadSmith]

The Greek word used that is translated taken out of the way is γίνομαι translated as ginomai.
Here is the meaning of this word.

Ginomai Definition
to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
of events
to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
of men appearing in public
to be made, finished
of miracles, to be performed, wrought
to become, be made

Nothing about anything or anyone being removed, or taken out of the way.

Should possibly read this way
2 Thessalonians 2:7 - He who now restrains will do so until He is come into existence.
So the second He could very well mean the son of perdition.
Understanding this word and it's meaning sheds a very different light on this verse.

So it could be translated this way.

He who now restrains will do so until the son of perdition is come into existence.


Let me know what you all think.

Doing more study on the γίνομαι.

It appears at least 46 more times in the new covenant. Nowhere was it translated so far off as it was in 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

As far as I've seen in the seven English Bible translations I have they translated that word wrong according to the other 46 times it is found, and the original translation of that Greek word, and it's meaning.

So my question is why?

 

[foszoe]

Doing more study on the γίνομαι.

It appears at least 46 more times in the new covenant. Nowhere was it translated so far off as it was in 2 Thessalonians 2:7.

As far as I've seen in the seven English Bible translations I have they translated that word wrong according to the other 46 times it is found, and the original translation of that Greek word, and it's meaning.

So my question is why?

Hey, DadSmith, I read your two posts and I am trying to understand the underlying question. It seems to be a disagreement in the translation from the greek to english versions, but I am not sure I have that right.

 

[DadSmith]

Hey, DadSmith, I read your two posts and I am trying to understand the underlying question. It seems to be a disagreement in the translation from the greek to english versions, but I am not sure I have that right.

That's correct.

 

[foszoe]

Monday, I go in for my first "major" surgery. I am having a knee replacement. It is expected to take all day and at the end of it they expect me to walk out. First I am thankful that medicine has advanced that far but that doesn't alleviate anxiety

For me, the surgery couldn't happen at a better time. Tonight, after Vespers, I can make my confession. Tomorrow is the Feast of Pentecost where I will receive anointing with Holy Chrism, and Monday is Holy Spirit day. If I do go, I couldn't be more ready.

Wife is well planned for and taken care of financially if something does happen. I won't say goes wrong because my prayer is always "Thy will be done."

Surgery is scheduled for 930 am. Appreciate prayers that the the Lord's will be done. If He wills I wake up, let it be. If He wills I heal quickly, let it be, but most of all pray for what I CAN control with the Lord's help. May I not wallow in self pity from pain, may I not be a burden on my wife needlessly, may I not fall into complaining, whining, anger, resentment, or any other temptation but that, if I awake, I thank God in all things, that I live in a time that this surgery is even possible, that I am healthy enough to have it, and that I use this "down" time to read God's word, pray earnestly, and become ever more grateful that I have been given a life to live.

 

[DadSmith]

Monday, I go in for my first "major" surgery. I am having a knee replacement. It is expected to take all day and at the end of it they expect me to walk out. First I am thankful that medicine has advanced that far but that doesn't alleviate anxiety

For me, the surgery couldn't happen at a better time. Tonight, after Vespers, I can make my confession. Tomorrow is the Feast of Pentecost where I will receive anointing with Holy Chrism, and Monday is Holy Spirit day. If I do go, I couldn't be more ready.

Wife is well planned for and taken care of financially if something does happen. I won't say goes wrong because my prayer is always "Thy will be done."

Surgery is scheduled for 930 am. Appreciate prayers that the the Lord's will be done. If He wills I wake up, let it be. If He wills I heal quickly, let it be, but most of all pray for what I CAN control with the Lord's help. May I not wallow in self pity from pain, may I not be a burden on my wife needlessly, may I not fall into complaining, whining, anger, resentment, or any other temptation but that, if I awake, I thank God in all things, that I live in a time that this surgery is even possible, that I am healthy enough to have it, and that I use this "down" time to read God's word, pray earnestly, and become ever more grateful that I have been given a life to live.

Will pray for you and request prayer in services.
My father and mother both have had it done. Both walk much better and free from the pain they use to be in.
Turn ot all over to Jesus and leave it there.
My favorite verses since becoming a Christian are these.

Romans 14:7-8 NKJV
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
[8] For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.