CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Islam...

[ATM]

Often enough, this I could buy. I have questioned his intentions before. I fully understand that he does NOT always come across in an effective way as he creates distance between the desired audience and himself. I have slowed down on this thread for two reasons. One of them is accepting that distance, even though we seem to be in agreement on the main concepts here. The other is that I was coming across in such a way that I would also lose my audience, as well. I do not doubt his intention at it's basic level. No doubt pride creeps in, as it does with us all and reveals itself in our individual sin before it is rejected again, but the core is sound.

Or perhaps you miss the effectiveness of how I've been exposing problems and the price I'm willing to pay while people continue to miss them.

Nah, probably just pride.

 

[hog slayer]

Or perhaps you miss the effectiveness of how I've been exposing problems and the price I'm willing to pay while people continue to miss them.

Nah, probably just pride.

At least you're consistent enough to be predictable

 

[ATM]

Well, I was raised as a Christian and was a Christian for >40 years. I'm not going to say that many of those values didn't stay with me. However, the belief as stated was that without God I would just do as I pleased. Well, I'm not just doing as I please. My behavior is driven by principles.

So you are doing as you please if it pleases you to be driven by principles.

In Christianity, people don't just follow God's law. They can't because of their fallen nature. But because they are saved, they live the law (New Testament) through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. To the extent that Christians allow the Holy Spirit to dwell within them, they may overcome their sinful nature. As self gives way to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit's nature takes over self. To put it as ATM would, this is Christianity 303.

roughly

So what now prevents me from doing as I please? Is there a Holy Spirit dwelling in me? What prevents me from doing as I please now? The reason, is it would violate my individualist principles, that I do not have a right to infringe on other people's rights. But there are many areas where I do as I please. For example I say ****. Alot.

You always did as you please. What pleases you is likely all that has varied.

 

[JettaKnight]

Anime and INGO v. ATM?


I'm out.
- Jetta (who's got beer to judge this weekend instead of debating)

 

[ATM]

...That being said, ATM's style (tending towards combative) and BBI's style (dialogue) are very different. ATM is more about winning than either BBI or myself, I am more about information gathering so I gravitate more to BBI's style and felt that when BBI wished to disengage, I would have had I been ATM, but ATM didn't. I didn't approve of ATM's actions in the sense that they were not my style and would have made me uncomfortable in a face to face interaction. I realize this is the internet, but I try to interact in the same way here as I would in person...

The difference is, in person, there are rarely multiple people engaging and far more observing and drawing conclusions from the interactions. I change my methods to suit the situation to be most effective.

 

[Benp]

Anime and INGO v. ATM?


I'm out.
- Jetta (who's got beer to judge this weekend instead of debating)

Beer is the great equalizer!

 

[jamil]

So you are doing as you please if it pleases you to be driven by principles.

This is actually hilarious.

roughly

Well it took the Apostle Paul many chapters and verses to explain it, so a paragraph can't do it justice.

You always did as you please. What pleases you is likely all that has varied.

Congratulations. You have passed your prerequisite exam for Human Nature 101. You are cleared to take the class.

 

[ATM]

I believe that's ATM Rule #2. Notice the he changes tack depending on who he wants to draw out. Oh, ATM Rule #1 is to make every possible thread more about ATM.

ATM Rule#1 is ENTERTAIN THE AUDIENCE, silly. This is well established.

I would (and probably do) defend Islam in the same way I would defend any other 1A issue: I may not agree with the belief, but would defend the right for the person to believe it.

Scrutinizing beliefs is a 1A issue? Oh, that's right... it actually recognizes and protects the right to scrutinize beliefs, doesn't it?

In a religious sense, I have no motivation to defend Islam, as I am not Muslim. I do tend to look for shared principles, but that's different. I have no desire to wage a personal holy war against every heretic. In fact, that is antithetical to "civil discussion."

Conjecture, your honor, move to... um, I'm not actually sure what motion to make here, but that's not a case.

I do, also, tend to defend Muslims from hypocritical people, but again, that's more on a political level. Were it Buddhists, atheists, or cat people being targeted, I'd likely do the same.

I've had to defend whole groups of Muslims from your attempts to identify them as the problem. Deception is the problem.

 

[ATM]

At least you're consistent enough to be predictable

If you ever find me inconsistent, my account has been hijacked.

Also, if you ever figure me out, my account has been hijacked.




Can I still say "hijacked" after that one thread? YOU BET I CAN.

 

[ATM]

Anime and INGO v. ATM?


I'm out.
- Jetta (who's got beer to judge this weekend instead of debating)

$5 on ATM

 

[ATM]

Congratulations. You have passed your prerequisite exam for Human Nature 101. You are cleared to take the class.

You do understand that the clever "angel" knows more about human nature than any of us, right?

That he never rests? That he is still in the game, right? Right?

What pleases a person will vary with the degree of truth or deception which guides a person.

Make sense?

 

[ATM]

What if Mohammed had distilled the Quran down to just 2 guiding sentences, you know, to really capture the whole essence and spirit of Islam?





Would either of those sentences begin with LOVE?

 

[ATM]

Another interesting exercise (which I'm sure T.Lex is busy with) would be to go back and figure out how I deceived anyone into believing that BBI needed defended from me.

If you believed that was the case, how exactly did I trick you?

I didn't even employ the crude but commonly accepted INGO tactic of labeling him a pejorative term like "truther" or "retard" for playing the role of Devil's Advocate and attempting to maintain a case for Islam as a religion of peace, regardless of his beliefs.

If he hadn't, I might have. I was certainly contemplating the challenge of the exercise, regardless of my beliefs. (I love a challenge!)

I let him know that I respected him, but not his beliefs, not anyone's beliefs for that matter, and that he wasn't my enemy, that Muslims are not my enemy.

I learned a lot in this thread and reached some significant conclusions from the beliefs he brought up. But I still wish him blessings on his journey.

Is it my sincerity that's in doubt?

When did I disrespect a single being but one in this whole thread? (And that one isn't even a human).

What has actually been exposed in this thread? Did you miss some of it? Was some of it your own propensity to be deceived?

Please, stop respecting beliefs and start respecting people, even deceived people - you know, the ones you're "supposed" to fear and hate for their beliefs.

 

[Benp]

Beliefs, Islamic or otherwise, don't deny others the freedom of life. Actions do.
Let's punish people for actions.

Agreed, the actions are what deny people the freedom of life, but unfortunately the beliefs of Islam encourage the action.
It's like taking a story line that isn't well written and trying to make a good movie out of it - you can't do it unless you do a complete rewrite of the story. IMO.

 

[T.Lex]

Another interesting exercise (which I'm sure T.Lex is busy with) would be to go back and figure out how I deceived anyone into believing that BBI needed defended from me.

If you believed that was the case, how exactly did I trick you?

I didn't even employ the crude but commonly accepted INGO tactic of labeling him a pejorative term like "truther" or "retard" for playing the role of Devil's Advocate and attempting to maintain a case for Islam as a religion of peace, regardless of his beliefs.

If he hadn't, I might have. I was certainly contemplating the challenge of the exercise, regardless of my beliefs. (I love a challenge!)

I let him know that I respected him, but not his beliefs, not anyone's beliefs for that matter, and that he wasn't my enemy, that Muslims are not my enemy.

I learned a lot in this thread and reached some significant conclusions from the beliefs he brought up. But I still wish him blessings on his journey.

Is it my sincerity that's in doubt?

When did I disrespect a single being but one in this whole thread? (And that one isn't even a human).

What has actually been exposed in this thread? Did you miss some of it? Was some of it your own propensity to be deceived?

Please, stop respecting beliefs and start respecting people, even deceived people - you know, the ones you're supposed to fear and hate.

Oh look. ATM asking people to talk about ATM more.

 

[ATM]

Agreed, the actions are what deny people the freedom of life, but unfortunately the beliefs of Islam encourage the action.
It's like taking a story line that isn't well written and trying to make a good movie out of it - you can't do it unless you do a complete rewrite of the story. IMO.

The story has been exposed for some irreconcilable claims as unreasonable to believe, at a minimum.

 

[ATM]

Oh look. ATM asking people to talk about ATM more.

Are you prepared to make the case for your earlier claims? I was talking about you.

You know, I like you even when you're dead wrong.

 

[ATM]

Imagine the founding fathers finding out that modern Americans now consider the animated public scrutiny of beliefs and ideas to be uncivil, even shameful discourse.

Be bold.

 

[BugI02]

The difference is, in person, there are rarely multiple people engaging and far more observing and drawing conclusions from the interactions. I change my methods to suit the situation to be most effective.

...
You always did as you please. What pleases you is likely all that has varied.

ATM vs ATM

Get ready to rrruuummmble!

 

[Benp]