CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Ziggidy]

That's got me curious - You hold Judaism in great respect (grammatically speaking ), so I guess that's not a "false religion" in your opinion.

I've gone back and forth on that... I have IDF patches and such, and some knowledge about what role they may play in the end times...

...but then again, they've ignored the Messiah, built a super-complicated works-based religion that even requires special appliances...



Care to discuss?

Great question. I too have often thought about that and at this point do not understand why such "favor" are given them. They do not worship the same God as we Christians do, so why is there so much value given to them? Not to say we should not value ALL people, but there seems to be a special place in the heart of Christians for the jewish people.

I do not want to discuss, but I'd love to read some discussion.

 

[T.Lex]

Are you sure you didn't just describe Catholicism?

I have this vision of the Swiss Guards using IDF patches....

 

[JettaKnight]

Are you sure you didn't just describe Catholicism?

Hmmm.... well fish on Friday is a diet rule, they ain't got nothing on Jewish dietary laws. RCC's got Mary lawn ornaments, but Jews have magical elevators and can't ring doorbells on Saturday....

 

[2A_Tom]

1. That's got me curious - You hold Judaism in great respect (grammatically speaking ), so I guess that's not a "false religion" in your opinion.
2. I've gone back and forth on that... I have IDF patches and such, and some knowledge about what role they may play in the end times...
3. ...but then again, they've ignored the Messiah, built a super-complicated works-based religion that even requires special appliances...

Care to discuss?

1. Judaism is is the foundation for Christianity.
2. 144,000 Male, Jewish, virgins will preach Christ during the Great Tribulation.
3. For now.

Great question. I too have often thought about that and at this point do not understand why such "favor" are given them. They do not worship the same God as we Christians do, so why is there so much value given to them? Not to say we should not value ALL people, but there seems to be a special place in the heart of Christians for the jewish people.

I do not want to discuss, but I'd love to read some discussion.

Abraham:

Genesis 12:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[Ziggidy]

Abraham:

Thanks....I forgot about that.

 

[DragonGunner]

Great question. I too have often thought about that and at this point do not understand why such "favor" are given them. They do not worship the same God as we Christians do, so why is there so much value given to them? Not to say we should not value ALL people, but there seems to be a special place in the heart of Christians for the jewish people.

I do not want to discuss, but I'd love to read some discussion.

I would say its the same God, (God is a Spirit) that they worship. However being Jews, just like in the days of Jesus when they rejected him and his place, that still goes on today with them. So that Jews who reject Christ because they do not yet believe he has come in the flesh are in fact anti-christ themselves regardless of believing in God. However we see just like in the days of Jesus many came to him for their salvation, the Apostles were Jews and also Christian. What we see today and has been happening over the past decades are that many Jews are coming to Christ. The Jews were Gods chosen people, but now we as Gentiles have been grafted in. I think we see a place in Gods eyes for the children of Israel from the past, and how he wants to gather them to himself, there is history. But make no mistake, Jew or Gentile all must come to Christ Jesus, for no man can go to the Father except through him. I am encouraged to hear of so many Jews that have come to Christ in recent years.

Apologies for any bad grammar, LOL.

 

[JettaKnight]

But I don't think you're doing a Jew any favors by watching him travel down the wrong path, all the while saying, "I respect your religion!"

If the goal to convert someone to Christ, why not treat Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Atheism, Walletism, etc. the same?

If I'm witnessing to a Jew, I wouldn't say the words "Old Testament", out of understanding and respect. Likewise, if I'm witnessing to a Muslim, I'm not going to toss my Bible on the floor or start sketching the Prophet Mohamed. Or even, if I'm witnessing to a RC, I'm not going to lead off with off, "Mary was a sinner, and had lots of sex with Joseph after Jesus!"

Regardless of what I think of their religion, it's important to the person. So, I need to show that in a way that says, "You're important to me, and I respect you", while simultaneously saying, "I don't agree with your beliefs."

I guess my point is, in some ways, the same level of respect should be offered for all religious beliefs.

Jew's are God's chosen people, but all humans are God's children. And I think we agree that any faith other than in Christ is damnable, even Judaism, no?

 

[2A_Tom]

Respecting the faith that I have been graft into does not mean that I do not try to persuade them to my sect.

I forgot to address the point about the same G-d.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The word God in this verse is Elohiym, which means Gods.

1. Y--H = G-d the father.
2. Yeshua = G-d the son.
3. Ruwach = Spirit

But, you say Yeshua is not mentioned in Genesis 1.

He was in John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Ziggidy]

I was just going to say the same. It is not the same God. The true God is the Father, the Son and he Holy Spirit.... any deviation of that is in fact a false god.

At one time I do believe the pope stated that muslims worshiped the same god..... again, totally wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2A_Tom]

The god of Israel is the same god they just do not Know whom the worship. But they will enter into the millennium as will any nation that blesses Israel.

 

[JettaKnight]

The god of Israel is the same god they just do not Know whom the worship. But they will enter into the millennium as will any nation that blesses Israel.

So, question: Does the current political state of Israel == the biblical Nation of Israel?


I'm not sure it does.

I was just going to say the same. It is not the same God. The true God is the Father, the Son and he Holy Spirit.... any deviation of that is in fact a false god.

At one time I do believe the pope stated that muslims worshiped the same god..... again, totally wrong.

A LOT of sects and religions will claim that we worship the same God. (See LDS, JW, etc.)

 

[BugI02]

Matthew 16:18-19, 18:15-20.

Romans 4 (KJV)

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Romans 3 (KJV)

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[2A_Tom]

So, question: Does the current political state of Israel == the biblical Nation of Israel?

I believe that Jews = Israel. The current nation of Israel observes freedom of religion and all of the major religions of the world are represented.

I believe that the New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven in the region now occupied by Israel.

I believe that my Friend that owns State Lumber in Calumet City is Israel. I personally believ as do Jews in Israel that anyone born of a Jewish woman is Israel.

I'm not sure it does.



A LOT of sects and religions will claim that we worship the same God. (See LDS, JW, etc.)

What I was referring to was that Christianity is a sect of Judaism. We are graft into the vine.

 

[JettaKnight]

What I was referring to was that Christianity is a sect of Judaism. We are graft into the vine.

OK, that makes a lot of sense. I.e. I can generally agree with this.

 

[BugI02]

That's got me curious - You hold Judaism in great respect (grammatically speaking ), so I guess that's not a "false religion" in your opinion.

I've gone back and forth on that... I have IDF patches and such, and some knowledge about what role they may play in the end times...

...but then again, they've ignored the Messiah, built a super-complicated works-based religion that even requires special appliances...



Care to discuss?

They have a prior covenant, but they would not be denied if they accepted Christ

 

[2A_Tom]

Romans 4 (KJV)

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Romans 3 (KJV)

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Wow! Salvation with out works!

Now that you have been Saved there are some things that you should do.

Get Baptized, Here in Acts we see the first big Evangelistic service, Peter preaches and a lot of people get Saved.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And Find abd join a good Bible preaching Church.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

It Is amazing that there are many that will try to say that Baptism is necessary for salvation and will reject Church.

 

[foszoe]

Is that the foundation of your convictions?

Let me just say this. Anything anyone says about the church and its teachings, along with the teachings of the (any) church - MUST ALIGN with the bible.

Just because a man says something, does not make it right. It MUST be verified with the word of God. The catholic church, along with others, do not always align with the word of God. The simple fact that the teachings of the catholic church has changed over the years is a prime example of man made words not aligning with God's word.

I have no dislike, hatred or anything else against catholics or any other individual.....it is the ideology that I disagree with and dislike; whether it is the catholic church or any other that does not align with God's word. It is so convenient to spin scripture to support one's desire for power and control.

You are half right. any teachings of the Church must align with the Bible. However the Bible must also align with the teachings of the Church. It is a failure of the latter test that yields the fragmentation of the Protestant movement. It is also what drives the conversation about "essentials" because its not really the Bible that is used to make sure your particular church aligns with it is rather making sure your church aligns with your particular interpretation of the bible. Hence why every protestant is a pope.

 

[foszoe]

To be technical, Baptiso means immersed IN WATER.

But back to the Bible.

The Bible is so wonderful, so foll of hope, yet some never get it. I have Heard a self proclaimed atheist say that he has read the Bible. I can confidently say that he has not immersed (BTW that is the correct English translation for baptisthV) himself in it.

This is a short description of the Bible from the sweet psalmist of Israel. Click on the 7 to see context.



For a lengthier description see, Psalms 119:1.

 

[2A_Tom]

To be technical, Baptiso means immersed IN WATER.

You are correct.

I was drawing a parallel.

 

[foszoe]

Point of order

Catholic Church = Orthodox

Point of order -
catholic church: The universal church. The body of all believers holding to essential core doctrine.

Roman Catholic Church: The Roman Catholic organization headed by the Pontiflex Maximus that claims to be the true Church.

Capitalization matters.


You may now return to your debate.