Circleville K9 Bites Black Man

[Denny347]

Probably go nowhere. The K9 handler will say that in the moment he released the dog, he "believed" the suspect was being noncompliant. "That's what was in my head"...therefore it wasn't negligent. It's a version of the Bill Clinton defense; based on the definition of sexual relations I had in my head at the time I made the statements, "I had no reason to believe I was answering any other way but truthfully"...therefore it wasn't perjury.

The union will back him up. Dogs are going to replace the PR-24 baton.

"Believed" itself is not sufficient to meet the Graham v. Connor reasonableness test. He has to show facts and circumstances that would cause a reasonable officer to come to the same conclusion.

 

[manifest destiny]

The dogs shouldn't be allowed to chew on persons. Period. Sniffing for contraband I don't agree with because the dog can't speak and isn't subject to questioning, but at least sniffing doesn't cause injury or death to the "alleged". Speaking of examination and questioning, odd LE doesn't, won't and declines third party testing of thier K9's. Hell, they won't even explain how thier K9 died during "routine training". The video that started this thread is disgusting. LE is quick to defend with the "one bad apple" argument. In this case all the other apples stood around and watched the bad apple but did nothing about it. This isn't anti-cop rhetoric. This is anti-law enforcement practices as witnessed.

 

[Denny347]

The union will back him up.

Depends. But who really cares? It makes little difference.

Dogs are going to replace the PR-24 baton.

Where have you been? K9s are getting used less and less these days. PR24's were being phased out when I came on in 1997.

 

[Denny347]

In this case all the other apples stood around and watched the bad apple but did nothing about it. This isn't anti-cop rhetoric. This is anti-law enforcement practices as witnessed.

What in the holy heck would you have to Troopers to do? I guess you've never been that close to a LE K9? The Troopers did nothing wrong.

 

[manifest destiny]

What in the holy heck would you have to Troopers to do? I guess you've never been that close to a LE K9? The Troopers did nothing wrong.

I don't know what the heck you mean... did you watch the video?

 

[Creedmoor]

Where have you been? K9s are getting used less and less these days. PR24's were being phased out when I came on in 1997.

Alexandria hasent had a dog for a few years now. We've had a few and then they vanish.

 

[Twangbanger]

"Believed" itself is not sufficient to meet the Graham v. Connor reasonableness test. He has to show facts and circumstances that would cause a reasonable officer to come to the same conclusion.

It still seems likely he'll claim he heard one set of officer commands, and not the other. "What did he hear/see and when?" I don't disagree with you, but can also easily imagine that in a parallel universe, there's a Lenny456 on Buckeye Gun Owners.com taking the other side of the issue. If his viewpoint doesn't prevail, it will be because of the Ferguson Effect, or else the plaintiff's attorney made bank off the fact they couldn't un-screw the mutt off the guy quickly (enter "It was a dog personality issue").

 

[manifest destiny]

IMPD announces significant changes to K9 unit, lawyer for bystanders bitten urges further reform

INDIANAPOLIS — IMPD just announced significant changes to its K9 unit. The IndyStar’s investigative unit recently found out IMPD’s K9’s have the highest rate of dog bites than any other police depa…

fox59.com

From above attachment (circa 2021)

“That dog, who can’t tell an innocent person from a guilty person, obviously, is going to engage, which means bite, and tear and hurt and injure and maim the citizens of Indianapolis,” Little said. “Whether they’re suspects, or pregnant women, or elderly people.”

We asked IMPD for an interview regarding the K9 unit, including how often in 2020 and 2019 an uninvolved person or police officer was bitten. IMPD declined an interview

 

[Route 45]

…the PR-24 baton.

 

[Creedmoor]

View attachment 288906

They need the Baltimore espantoon, the beat cops still use them.

 

[Ark]

IMPD announces significant changes to K9 unit, lawyer for bystanders bitten urges further reform

INDIANAPOLIS — IMPD just announced significant changes to its K9 unit. The IndyStar’s investigative unit recently found out IMPD’s K9’s have the highest rate of dog bites than any other police depa…

fox59.com

From above attachment (circa 2021)

“That dog, who can’t tell an innocent person from a guilty person, obviously, is going to engage, which means bite, and tear and hurt and injure and maim the citizens of Indianapolis,” Little said. “Whether they’re suspects, or pregnant women, or elderly people.”

We asked IMPD for an interview regarding the K9 unit, including how often in 2020 and 2019 an uninvolved person or police officer was bitten. IMPD declined an interview

He reported, in 2019, there were 70 K9 apprehensions involving a bite. Of those 70 people, 68 of them were running from police on felony charges and two people on misdemeanors. There were 433 apprehensions without a bite. The bite ratio in 2019 was 14%, which Barker said is below the Department of Justice’s recommended guideline of 20%.

In 2020, up to October, 42 apprehensions of people involved a K9 bite, 334 cases involved catching a person and there was no K9 bite reported. The bite ratio lowered to 11%.

In quarter 1 of 2021, they have deployed a K9 26 times. The K9 did not bite the fleeing person in 25 of those cases.

To this point in 2021, no officer or uninvolved citizen has been bitten.

-------

So the actual data shows there's no problem at all. Maybe Indy's criminal community should run from the police less often.

 

[Bugzilla]

Where is the video from the Police doggie cam? That would answer a lot of questions!

 

[Denny347]

I don't know what the heck you mean... did you watch the video?

I did watch the video. It's pretty universal training that you DO NOT touch a working dog while attached to a suspect if you are not the handler. The dog will not listen to you and will consider you a suspect yourself. It is the handler's responsibility unless you want more injuries. Again, what would you have the Troopers do? You say they should have done something, EXACTLY what would that be?

 

[KG1]

I think the K-9 unit officer carries the brunt here for trying to interject himself and the K-9 into a situation which conflicted with the Trooper's commands. I would just like to know why he made the decision to release the K-9. Like I said before none of us were on the scene but according to what was heard on the video the Troopers did not feel that the K-9 release was warranted at the time.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

So the actual data shows there's no problem at all. Maybe Indy's criminal community should run from the police less often.

I think the "unanswered" question, and the focus of the article, was not necessarily intended targets for apprehension, but UNINTENDED K9 attacks on other LEOs as well as uninvolved civilians.

Specifically, innocent and uninvolved people on their porches attacked when K9s were "released" in residential areas or other LEOs and emergency personnel attacked unintentionally. There were no data released for THAT specific.

"Maybe Indy's criminal community should run from the police less often."

Or be pregnant or 70+ years old sitting on your own porch...

I.e. spin on both sides.

 

[DragonGunner]

Short search on police dogs showed Chicago rarely use dogs anymore. As well as many others. It listed Indy as being the most aggressive in using dogs to bite suspects. Many cities with low dog bites only use them for extreme felonies. Indy is probably taking a good look on how often they are using them because each bite is a trip to the hospital and may be costing Indy $$$$ for each bite, and if severe even more $$$$.

 

[Ark]

I think the "unanswered" question, and the focus of the article, was not necessarily intended targets for apprehension, but UNINTENDED K9 attacks on other LEOs as well as uninvolved civilians.

Specifically, innocent and uninvolved people on their porches attacked when K9s were "released" in residential areas or other LEOs and emergency personnel attacked unintentionally. There were no data released for THAT specific.

"Maybe Indy's criminal community should run from the police less often."

Or be pregnant or 70+ years old sitting on your own porch...

I.e. spin on both sides.

In almost a decade they found two incidents to complain about.

 

[Destro]

Alexandria hasent had a dog for a few years now. We've had a few and then they vanish.

They have one right now

 

[Creedmoor]

They have one right now

Interesting, I have yet to see it. I dont think I have even seen the marked K9 Cruiser for awhile now.
Lots of money have been dumped into our PD in the last few years. Where did you work?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

In almost a decade they found two incidents to complain about.

Are those the only two such attacks in a decade? Where's the data to support that assertion... oh, wait, THAT is the data they refused to release or talk about... ETA: or even acknowledge if it exists or not.

Regardless, are you ok with releasing K9s into residential areas? (I'm definitely NOT absence an active shooter on the loose, or equivalent)

Would you be ok if it was your father/grandfather attacked on his own front porch while minding his own business? Your pregnant wife or daughter attacked on her own front porch. (I would not, and if present for an attack on my father/wife/daughter would have put an immediate, and permanent, halt to the attack)

The article (from 2021) focuses on two attacks that they know of because the attorney for the pregnant woman, who according to the reporting went into pre-mature labor due to the K9 attack, and an elderly man came forward with it. These two are just the most vocal and sympathetic that we know of...

The unanswered question is whether or not ALL K9 bites are recorded and what the record is of attacks on UNINTENDED targets.

IMO, "No comment" is the opposite of "it's not a problem". Also IMO it is more suspicious to not address - makes me suspect that that it is a problem, they know it's a problem, and that they don't want it to surface... "move along, nothing to see here" in the bad sense.