Churchgoer Tries to Hide Gun After Accidentally Shooting It Mid-Prayer

[printcraft]

spudsmckraken
NewYorkCynic
4/06/15 11:42am

Let alone a gun that was loaded and chambered... 
I don't mind guns, but even I hate it when people chamber when they carry.

 

[HoughMade]

...But according to some on the internet that .001 second it takes me to thumb that safety off is bad.... What's a man to do....

Takes "0" additional time if you practice.

That being said, a good holster and the admonition of "stop touching it" (that I heard somewhere I can't quite remember) would seem to avoid this type of thing.

 

[Joniki]

The comments are pathetic.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I realize I'm definitely in the minority but I sure do like firearms with old fashioned safeties. But according to some on the internet that .001 second it takes me to thumb that safety off is bad.... What's a man to do....

It ain't the .0001 second. It's the time your sweaty, bloody, and/or in a hurry and don't get it off when you thought you did. Everything has a trade off.

 

[BE Mike]

I carried an old fashioned revolver for years without a safety. No problem, but it was always holstered. When in a pocket holster, nothing else was present besides the gun and holster. If a safety makes you feel good, then by all means carry a pistol with one and have it engaged. If you do however, do yourself a favor, and take a lot of time (I mean a lot of time) and train by drawing, manipulating the safety and shooting.

 

[yeti rider]

"Let alone a gun that was loaded and chambered...

I don't mind guns, but even I hate it when people chamber when they carry."


This was my favorite quote from the comments

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

The comments section is always a good place to go for a facepalm...

If it went off as he was "standing up" then I wonder what kind of holster (if any) he had it in... It would seem he didn't have the trigger properly covered.

 

[jbmayes2000]

Carrying is "justified" whether there are any shootings or not. Your safety is your concern.

I follow your premise and I probably should have phrased my comment differently rather than using the word "justified" but, in this instance (i'm not generalizing carrying a weapon here) on your last sentence, him carrying for his safety ended up putting everyone else's safety in jeopardy when he discharged it, did it not?

He is just providing a link showing that churches are not exempt from attacks in an effort to inform. Those who would claim that they don't need any protection in church compared to anywhere else are the ones who are misinformed.

I think I just misinterpreted why he linked the information. I thought he was using the link as a source of justification as to why you should carry in a church. From a statistical point of view, considering there are roughly 350,000 churches that meet every sunday (350,000 x 52 = 18,200,000) over the past 11 years (18,200,000 x 11 = 200,200,000). The odds of it happening in any church on any given sunday was around 0.000009%. And that's just by church, that doesn't go down to a per person level. So I was going to say..using that statistic is really worthless to make your case. HOWEVER, It's clear now that he just meant that they have happened before so it's not exactly a "safe haven".

When is carrying of a firearm *NOT* justified?

I'm sorry, I should have phrased that differently. I know i'm going to be the minority here so try not to lynch me but I think I meant to ask him if he was using those statistic makes carrying a gun into a church appropriate? I'm sure the answer i'll get is "It's always appropriate" and that's fine. Being a Financial Analyst, I immediately looked at that statistic and thought how little that was if he was using it as a way to say it's necessary.

I think that carrying is justified everywhere because bad things can happen anywhere. I was just pointing out that bad things can happen in church.

Gotcha! I just misinterpreted the use! Nothing to see here folks!

 

[pudly]

Gotcha! I just misinterpreted the use! Nothing to see here folks!

Hey jbmayes. Don't worry. We weren't jumping on you at all. You asked the question exactly right. If you don't see why someone is doing something with guns, ask respectfully (as you did) and we will be happy to supply information with minimal snark. If someone does something stupid, we'll be happy to analyze it to learn from it and jump all over their case. In this case, carrying was not the problem. The carelessness that lead to an negligent discharge was the problem.

Lesson #1: Any gun that you are carrying should be in a proper holster that covers up the trigger.
Lesson #2: Churches are not safe havens. You should be aware of their carry policy and deal with it accordingly.
Lesson #3: Statistics on relative safety are all well and good, but not necessarily relevant to your case. It only takes one time to ruin yours and your families future. My house is not likely to be the one that burns down, but I still have fire extinguishers. Carrying is a serious responsibility and you should be aware of both the laws and how to use your firearms effectively/safely.

 

[chipbennett]

I'm sorry, I should have phrased that differently. I know i'm going to be the minority here so try not to lynch me but I think I meant to ask him if he was using those statistic makes carrying a gun into a church appropriate? I'm sure the answer i'll get is "It's always appropriate" and that's fine. Being a Financial Analyst, I immediately looked at that statistic and thought how little that was if he was using it as a way to say it's necessary.

No need to lynch anyone. But perhaps I could reframe the discussion: why would carrying a firearm in church ever be inappropriate?

 

[jbmayes2000]

Hey jbmayes. Don't worry. We weren't jumping on you at all. You asked the question exactly right. If you don't see why someone is doing something with guns, ask respectfully (as you did) and we will be happy to supply information with minimal snark. If someone does something stupid, we'll be happy to analyze it to learn from it and jump all over their case. In this case, carrying was not the problem. The carelessness that lead to an negligent discharge was the problem.

Lesson #1: Any gun that you are carrying should be in a proper holster that covers up the trigger.
Lesson #2: Churches are not safe havens. You should be aware of their carry policy and deal with it accordingly.
Lesson #3: Statistics on relative safety are all well and good, but not necessarily relevant to your case. It only takes one time to ruin yours and your families future. My house is not likely to be the one that burns down, but I still have fire extinguishers. Carrying is a serious responsibility and you should be aware of both the laws and how to use your firearms effectively/safely.

No need to lynch anyone. But perhaps I could reframe the discussion: why would carrying a firearm in church ever be inappropriate?

Personally, when your chance of having to use it is statistically relevant to your chance of someone mishandling/misfiring it in the same place. This specific example went from protecting himself to *potentially* injuring someone. Even if this one case is the only one in the last 11 years, compared to how many people go to church every sunday throughout the US, your chances of either of these happening are, realistically, about the same which is about 0.

Unfortunately the stats page isn't working at work but how many of those were "mass" shootings (IE: The shooter came in looking to inflict the most damage) vs individual grievances (shooter came looking for a single person/family)? Because that would factor more into whether or not you'd actually be able to "use" your firearm.

And just for clarification this has sort of switched to a discussion on statistics and the likely hood of something happening, not necessary related *directly* to the article so if i'm getting off topic I apologize and can edit my posts.

 

[rvb]

From a statistical point of view, considering there are roughly 350,000 churches that meet every sunday (350,000 x 52 = 18,200,000) over the past 11 years (18,200,000 x 11 = 200,200,000). The odds of it happening in any church on any given sunday was around 0.000009%. And that's just by church, that doesn't go down to a per person level.
...
I know i'm going to be the minority here so try not to lynch me but I think I meant to ask him if he was using those statistic makes carrying a gun into a church appropriate?

cause stats tell the whole story?

while most folks are imagining some "Kill Bill" style church attack, w/ some gunman/men entering and robbing during service, don't forget there's going to/from the church, which includes parking lots. some services and activities are late at night, and many churches are not in good parts of town, lots of folks walk to their churches, take buses, etc. some church members may have duties that cause them to be there early or later than most folks, essentially there by themselves. maybe you have other places to be after service (I know I feel safer leaving it on me than screwing w/ it in the parking lot [because holster]). just because only a handful of dramatic in-service events have been identified, I wouldn't imagine that's the extent of nationwide crime which could involve a person having a need/desire to have a defensive tool w/ them while in the service.

get the calculator back out.

-rvb

 

[lovemachine]

"Sigh" I can't carry in church. There's a school on the property

 

[Rey B]

Sadly mine has a pre-school so carry is out for me as well.

 

[chipbennett]

Personally, when your chance of having to use it is statistically relevant to your chance of someone mishandling/misfiring it in the same place. This specific example went from protecting himself to *potentially* injuring someone. Even if this one case is the only one in the last 11 years, compared to how many people go to church every sunday throughout the US, your chances of either of these happening are, realistically, about the same which is about 0.

And if you take your statistics at face value, and then apply that logic to carry anywhere else one could conceivably go anywhere in public? How many people go to a movie theater? How many people go to Kroger? How many people go to Waffle House? How many people go to school? Taken to its logical conclusion, your argument is basically that it is inappropriate to carry anywhere in public.

Negligent discharges are exceedingly rare. Injuries from negligent discharges are even more rare. Being at a church does not represent a higher risk of negligent discharge as compared to being in any other, arbitrary place.

The only thing inappropriate in this incident is the apparent lack of a holster for the pocket-carried firearm.

 

[HoughMade]

Them Charismatics can be a might excitable.....maybe it was a really good prayer.

 

[worddoer]

Another victory for pocket carry!

There are many who want to deride pocket carry when they see incidents like this. There have been negligent discharges with other carry methods also. If done properly, pocket carry is no more dangerous than any other form of carry.

IMHO Here are the 2 rules that are required for successful pocket carry.


1. Please, please, PLEASE.....do not put ANYTHING else in that pocket. No change, no keys, nothing other than the holster and gun itself. Anything else in that pocket will get you and possibly someone else killed.

2. Use the CORRECT holster for pocket carry. What is a correct holster you ask? Again, IMHO, it is only Kydex holsters and they must cover the ENTIRE trigger guard area. I really like Alabama holsters and Raven Concealment holsters myself, but there are other companies that make appropriate options. Due to the coverage and rigidity of the holster, even if I bump my pocket into something that may enter the trigger guard, with the PROPER holster...all is safe. I also find that Kydex gives superior retention while still providing and easy draw.

With those two rules being followed, pocket carry can be safe. Otherwise, DON'T DO IT!!! So far, every pocket carry ND I have read about broke one or both of the two rules above. And I am sure once we have more facts, this incident broke one of the 2 rules above as well.

 

[BE Mike]

Sadly mine has a pre-school so carry is out for me as well.

Actually under Indiana law a pre-school and maybe a school (if it accepts no public funding) may be a ministry and not a school.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

why would carrying a firearm in church ever be inappropriate?

Because its tucked in a g-string and nothing else? NOTHING ELSE!!!

C'mon, this is INGO. We can find a way to make anything inappropriate.

 

[drillsgt]

Actually under Indiana law a pre-school and maybe a school (if it accepts no public funding) may be a ministry and not a school.

Hmmm, tell me more