Carrying an AR in the truck

[Porter]

I agree with all of the above stay within the speed limits and we can all say I wish I would have when it over. But spur of the moment if your not for sure you just roll with what you think is best. Nothing was done wrong and sometimes when we get busy we fail to pay attention to those 45 mph zones that sneak up on us. Just thought I'd post the question for future refrence.

Also edit to the original post he did not get a ticket for the 10 or 12 mph over whatever it was after checking his gun. I told him you probably gave him something out of the ordinary and he forgot about the ticket. I don't know but I'd say that's a plus.

 

[gregkl]

Unless he has probable cause (or consent to a search) why did he run the numbers on that rifle?

Not trying to be a jerk here, but I believe in standing up for my rights. Makes a dash cam seem like a better idea all the time.

Oh, and it sure as hell shouldn't matter to the cop if it was loaded or not. But who the hell carries around an unloaded rifle anyway?

Anyone who is at a cold range with instructors who demand that the rifle stay unloaded, bolt open with a chamber flag until instructed to "load and make ready"?

Just poking fun at you. I really like the Revere Riders and will be back for more this year.

 

[Bill B]

Not defending the LEO here BUT, Legally an LEO can run the numbers and not under Officer Safety, They can do it under "Reasonable Suspician". Now as a former Municipal LEO myself I never did run gun numbers on a routine speeding ticket etc unless the spidy senses went off. However there are some LEO's that do it everytime and they are well within the law. It is easily avoided though, stay under the speed limt!

Actually I'm pretty sure the Indiana Supreme Court disagrees with you, but I don't have access at the moment to my Lexis Nexus account so I can't cite cases for you. Having said that, I would not challenge the officer on the side of the road, I'd go home, do the research, and file a complaint with the chief of police and anyone else who would listen.
Of course the last time I did that I ended up getting arrested a week later on a B.S. charge that the town ended up paying for, but I'd do it again.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Not defending the LEO here BUT, Legally an LEO can run the numbers and not under Officer Safety, They can do it under "Reasonable Suspician". Now as a former Municipal LEO myself I never did run gun numbers on a routine speeding ticket etc unless the spidy senses went off. However there are some LEO's that do it everytime and they are well within the law. It is easily avoided though, stay under the speed limt!

You would be wrong. Having a long rifle in a vehicle, by itself, is not RAS that any crime has been committed. But please continue to tell others that violating one's rights under the color of law is A-OK.

 

[Sling10mm]

Not defending the LEO here BUT, Legally an LEO can run the numbers and not under Officer Safety, They can do it under "Reasonable Suspician". Now as a former Municipal LEO myself I never did run gun numbers on a routine speeding ticket etc unless the spidy senses went off. However there are some LEO's that do it everytime and they are well within the law. It is easily avoided though, stay under the speed limt!

What was the reasonable suspicion? Anyone with a rifle in the front seat of their car is a criminal, and therefore the firearm must be stolen? Don't quite understand your reasoning.

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

"I do not consent to any searches or seizure of property."
LEO - "It's for officer safety."
"Please contact your supervisor or another officer to watch me while you run my license/registration."

Don't give in to their crap.

 

[in625shooter]

Actually I'm pretty sure the Indiana Supreme Court disagrees with you, but I don't have access at the moment to my Lexis Nexus account so I can't cite cases for you. Having said that, I would not challenge the officer on the side of the road, I'd go home, do the research, and file a complaint with the chief of police and anyone else who would listen.
Of course the last time I did that I ended up getting arrested a week later on a B.S. charge that the town ended up paying for, but I'd do it again.

You would be wrong. Having a long rifle in a vehicle, by itself, is not RAS that any crime has been committed. But please continue to tell others that violating one's rights under the color of law is A-OK.

What was the reasonable suspicion? Anyone with a rifle in the front seat of their car is a criminal, and therefore the firearm must be stolen? Don't quite understand your reasoning.

As far as the reasonable suspicion, A person is speeding, gets stopped, has a rifle in plain view the LEO is well with their rights to investigate it to determin if there is probabal cause to go further and that includes running the Seirial Numbers. Happens or use to all the time. And that is well within the law and not a violation of anyones rights. And hurt feelings on the speeders behalf is not a case of misuse of authority. I have not seen too many of these cases/scenerios get escalated by anything other than the driver pushing it to the next level and it usually never worked out for them.

Bottom line don't drive in a manner to get pulled over and if pulled over be cordial and there usually isn't a problem. Unless your a Sovereign Citizen then you can pound sand!

 

[SteveM4A1]

As far as the reasonable suspicion, A person is speeding, gets stopped, has a rifle in plain view the LEO is well with their rights to investigate it to determin if there is probabal cause to go further and that includes running the Seirial Numbers. Happens or use to all the time. And that is well within the law and not a violation of anyones rights. And hurt feelings on the speeders behalf is not a case of misuse of authority. I have not seen too many of these cases/scenerios get escalated by anything other than the driver pushing it to the next level and it usually never worked out for them.

Bottom line don't drive in a manner to get pulled over and if pulled over be cordial and there usually isn't a problem. Unless your a Sovereign Citizen then you can pound sand!

See, this is part of the problem. You were a LEO and don't even understand what reasonable articulable suspicion is. Speeding, by itself, is not RAS to search one's car or belongings. This is the problem we must solve.

 

[Sling10mm]

Not badgering you, but I still haven't heard an explanation of what the reasonable suspicion is that the rifle is somehow illegal/stolen. The fact that the person was speeding doesn't suggest that he has a stolen weapon, or anything else, in his car, even if in plain sight. What if it was a power drill, or cell phone, or a bundle of $20 bills lying in plain view in the front passenger seat? Does the officer then get to investigate if those items are stolen? I don't understand why the firearm somehow deserves extra scrutiny.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Not badgering you, but I still haven't heard an explanation of what the reasonable suspicion is that the rifle is somehow illegal/stolen. The fact that the person was speeding doesn't suggest that he has a stolen weapon, or anything else, in his car, even if in plain sight. What if it was a power drill, or cell phone, or a bundle of $20 bills lying in plain view in the front passenger seat? Does the officer then get to investigate if those items are stolen? I don't understand why the firearm somehow deserves extra scrutiny.

But "it happens all the time", so it's legal!

 

[Trigger Time]

As far as the reasonable suspicion, A person is speeding, gets stopped, has a rifle in plain view the LEO is well with their rights to investigate it to determin if there is probabal cause to go further and that includes running the Seirial Numbers. Happens or use to all the time. And that is well within the law and not a violation of anyones rights. And hurt feelings on the speeders behalf is not a case of misuse of authority. I have not seen too many of these cases/scenerios get escalated by anything other than the driver pushing it to the next level and it usually never worked out for them.

Bottom line don't drive in a manner to get pulled over and if pulled over be cordial and there usually isn't a problem. Unless your a Sovereign Citizen then you can pound sand!

dear god.
sorry but you wouldn't be getting my gun nor any of your buddies.
i WILL argue on the side of the road or anywhere else I have to. If ordered out of the car I'm locking my keys inside. People need to quit being wimps and stand up for something. If you say "from my cold dead hands" and don't even have the gonads to say no to a search then you deffinately won't put up when it comes time to stand up.

 

[Roadie]

See, this is part of the problem. You were a LEO and don't even understand what reasonable articulable suspicion is. Speeding, by itself, is not RAS to search one's car or belongings. This is the problem we must solve.

Agreed. The firearm is unrelated to the traffic stop.
If I get pulled over and an Officer sees an expensive stereo receiver in my backseat, does that give him RAS to run the serial number to check for theft?

 

[hdrenollet]

I'm all for standing up for my rights. The problem is that there are a few LEO that literally do whatever the hell they want, or are not fully aware of the laws and rights of the people they are in place to serve and protect, and when it's just you and him/her, one-on-one, late at night on pitch black backroads, and something goes down... who will be at fault? Cops tend to believe each others' stories and if you are in possession of a loaded weapon, get argumentative, and end up getting shot by a trigger-happy (or legitimately afraid) LEO, I'm afraid the law would likely side with the LEO. All he has to do is feel threatened in some way, and he's justified in killing you. It doesn't really matter what your rights are at that point. This may sound extreme, but it does happen. This is why I tend to not rock the boat... if I have a problem with how I was treated during an encounter, I will take appropriate action after the incident is over.

 

[cobber]

As far as the reasonable suspicion, A person is speeding, gets stopped, has a rifle in plain view the LEO is well with their rights to investigate it to determin if there is probabal cause to go further and that includes running the Seirial Numbers. Happens or use to all the time. And that is well within the law and not a violation of anyones rights. And hurt feelings on the speeders behalf is not a case of misuse of authority. I have not seen too many of these cases/scenerios get escalated by anything other than the driver pushing it to the next level and it usually never worked out for them.

Bottom line don't drive in a manner to get pulled over and if pulled over be cordial and there usually isn't a problem. Unless your a Sovereign Citizen then you can pound sand!

Not even close. You would have RS that the driver was speeding. Period. The presence of a long gun is not RS of anything, unless the vehicle matches the description of a getaway car in a bank robbery 15 minutes ago where the robber employed an AR. Or if he's driving slowly down a county road at night and has the rifle and a spotlight in his car, might be jacklighting. Then you could expand the scope of the investigation.



Now, was there a wallet involved?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Not defending the LEO here BUT, Legally an LEO can run the numbers and not under Officer Safety, They can do it under "Reasonable Suspician". Now as a former Municipal LEO myself I never did run gun numbers on a routine speeding ticket etc unless the spidy senses went off. However there are some LEO's that do it everytime and they are well within the law. It is easily avoided though, stay under the speed limt!

Actually I'm pretty sure the Indiana Supreme Court disagrees with you, but I don't have access at the moment to my Lexis Nexus account so I can't cite cases for you.

Not sure about Indiana, but the US Supreme Court does. See below.

As far as the reasonable suspicion, A person is speeding, gets stopped, has a rifle in plain view the LEO is well with their rights to investigate it to determin if there is probabal cause to go further and that includes running the Seirial Numbers. Happens or use to all the time. And that is well within the law and not a violation of anyones rights. And hurt feelings on the speeders behalf is not a case of misuse of authority. I have not seen too many of these cases/scenerios get escalated by anything other than the driver pushing it to the next level and it usually never worked out for them.

You may want to read Arizona V Hicks. What is the reasonable suspicion to run the serial numbers to find out if there is probable cause? Isn't reasonable suspicion the beginning? Also per SCOTUS, it seems you would need probable cause to move the firearm or perform a search to check the serial number. Now if you can read the serial number through the window, that may be a different story.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/480/321/case.html

Agreed. The firearm is unrelated to the traffic stop.
If I get pulled over and an Officer sees an expensive stereo receiver in my backseat, does that give him RAS to run the serial number to check for theft?

See above.

 

[Hornett]

Not badgering you, but I still haven't heard an explanation of what the reasonable suspicion is that the rifle is somehow illegal/stolen.

I will answer for him. I think I know this one.
It's because the rifle is in plain sight.
See, people who commit crimes or steal weapons always leave them in plain sight on the way to or from the crime scene.

Purple as needed.

 

[milton]

I'm late to the game but here's my thoughts about this thread.

1.Education is important, but it must be done with respect otherwise the other party won't be receptive.

2. Some people need to brush up on the definition of reasonable suspicion

3. Case law is made by people who confuse number 2

4. Don't be number 3

 

[Sling10mm]

I'm late to the game but here's my thoughts about this thread.

1.Education is important, but it must be done with respect otherwise the other party won't be receptive.

2. Some people need to brush up on the definition of reasonable suspicion

3. Case law is made by people who confuse number 2

4. Don't be number 3

Well, some of us are here to get an education, so please elaborate.

 

[milton]

Well, some of us are here to get an education, so please elaborate.

What I mean is, if you want to educate the officer, do it respectfully. Sorry if that was confusing. It made sense when I typed it.

And the some people brushing up on definition wasn't meant toward you. I agree with what you said. To me, as a LEO, just having a gun isn't reasonable suspicion. Of course I work in a county, and the majority of farmers, hunters, etc. have rifles in there trucks.

 

[Sling10mm]

What I mean is, if you want to educate the officer, do it respectfully. Sorry if that was confusing. It made sense when I typed it.

And the some people brushing up on definition wasn't meant toward you. I agree with what you said. To me, as a LEO, just having a gun isn't reasonable suspicion. Of course I work in a county, and the majority of farmers, hunters, etc. have rifles in there trucks.

No worries Milton, I just wasn't sure what you were getting at, and I agree with your comment about educating respectfully.