Carry educate

[nakinate]

Die thread! DIE!!!!!!

 

[David D]

Then I was misunderstood, so for the record you can OC however you want. I was just saying we are judged on our appearance, being in work clothes doesn't make you look threatening or like a dirt ball so therefore not the appearance I was talking about. The reason I even brought this up was because the OP talked about how he makes certain he is clean cut and dressed a certain way. So while we may not agree with this, in his defense I was saying I could see the direction I think he was headed. Sometimes ones appearance can play a part in how they are perceived but their demeanor plays a larger part than appearance IMO. Plus no matter how we look or act some people won't be ok with our guns regardless, and for this reason I to an extent just don't worry about it. The reason why I gave the harbor freight example, no issues there. I also often go around about my business in work clothes, the guy didn't get a second look from me or anyone else in said work clothes. Heck we have seen some guys who I am assuming were HVAC guys who had been in an attic, no issues there (just another example is all). This wash just done in defense or hopes of getting the point across that wearing work clothes or not being "dressed up" or looking clean kept (however you want to say it) is not what I was referring to, or more clearly say I wasn't speaking to work clothes, just other perception of us. (which to some may be better dressed that way Unless you're a 1911 snob)

Carrying and being an advocate is positive, it not just appearance but behavior. What I hate more are those that "look" like everyday normal guys but are the people who make 2nd amendment videos open carrying AR's looking for a response usually by law enforcement so they can "exercise their rights" this just does more harm than good, but that is a different topic I suppose.

I am not calling people out specifically of anything especially not those in work clothes (I would never do that, I was trying to relate back to it myself being a guy in them) I get what you and actaeon are saying and from my understanding I am lumped in with you. But I think it may be a safe call to assume you have at some point seen a guy or can imagine someone who may fit the bill as to what I am talking about.
Maybe someone who would seem threatening without a gun, so then the presence of a gun can make people (especially those who unlike us, who "don't get it") uncomfortable. This is what I think should be avoided. Should judging people in such a way be avoided? Yes! Will it happen? No! I do get it is everyones right no matter what and people here on INGO are usually always very responsible gun owners and positive for outside view when it comes to our love for firearms... None of us want people giving others a negative view of us. There are countless threads dedicated to it.

I am not saying I have a problem but more how I can now see for myself how those thinking differently than me could feel. I try to be aware of this is all. *this has nothing to do with being in work clothes but more of how someone is perceived by others, no matter what influences lead to the perception.* (I think it's just good for us to remember it or be aware of it at least; not saying to change anything) Sorry to unintentionally stir the pot!

Well put. I don't agree with the people that are stating that simply wanting other 2'nd amendment lovers / carryers to consider how they present themselves is an anti-gun position. I would state that the exact opposite is in fact true. I value our rights enough to take the time to consider all points of view and how we present ourselves.

Like Bfish, I am not implying that one shouldn't be allowed to carry unless they are dressed in my preferred manner, only that like it or not, the sheeple do judge us based on what they see. Even realizing that to some, "perception is reality", I do believe that if we (gun toters) are seen as a cross section of society, we will eventually be accepted as no different (aka - not a threat) than the rest of society.

 

[Spike_351]

you wouldnt have needed to carry to scare me. the pic is pricless, but creepy

Got him for ya Biscuit.

We need an INGO Former Punk Rockers group!

Me at 19:

Gg

 

[Dirtebiker]

I kinda get what the OP was saying, and I don't think he is trying to flame the OC guys but I took it more as he wants good representatives for us when he talked about appearance and things…

I frequent a local coffee shops and so do a lot of my buddies. Some are in graduate school and others go just to knock out work related things while we all hangout and goof off working on whatever we need to accomplish but still talk hunting, guns, weekend plans or whatever. I have seen quite a few guys come in OCing over the past 6 months or so which is nice. This leads to many "whats in the holster!?" talks with the guys and talking over approval/admiration or harping on of weapon choice or whatever else may ensue based on who/what came in.

But after several of these talks there was a night some of the guys had an issue with how a guy looked while OCing, then a conversation such as the one taking place here ERUPTED! But a lot of the guys had some good points and I will say that when we OC we are representing the 2nd amendment and influencing a public view of guns when seen with them. So our appearance, actions, and how we conduct ourselves also can or does impact the views of others on the 2nd amendment and guns. So while OC is great and I know that the 2A does not discriminate in anyway (just referring to this thread) I do as a gun lover think it is important to remember what we represent and what that means, applied to all things gun related. So it doesn't just apply to open carry, but about anything gun related. We need to be aware of how we represent ourselves is all I think.

When I o.c., I represent ME! Not you, not the Second Amendment, and not other gun owners.
No one is denying that our appearance will have an effect on others impressions of us. The point is, it was not the o.p's place to tell the other guy how to dress or act!
I don't worry about what others think of me, the way I dress, or whether I trimmed my beard in the last week or so.
If someone's opinion of me is based solely on my appearance, then I don't value their opinion at all!
I'm not saying appearance doesn't matter at all. If you are my employee, you will dress the way I require while you are on the job, and representing ME. If you are a member of my family, we have certain standards that you will follow.
As a fellow gun owner/carrier? I don't care if you walk around naked with your Jimenez taped to your forehead!

 

[Dirtebiker]

I carry every day, in saying this, I do conceal the gun I carry. My thought is, if something bad happens, like a robbery, if I carry a visible gun, I may be the 1st to get shot. I want a fighting chance.

welcome to

 

[88GT]

Well put. I don't agree with the people that are stating that simply wanting other 2'nd amendment lovers / carryers to consider how they present themselves is an anti-gun position. I would state that the exact opposite is in fact true. I value our rights enough to take the time to consider all points of view and how we present ourselves.

Gun owners are their own worst enemies. We are the only group of people who beg for the privilege to exercise a RIGHT and do so on terms that other people define for us.

When was the last time we had this discussion about exercising free speech and preserving it by only writing and speaking nice, complimentary things?

When was the last time we had this discussion about the freedom to worship by arguing that only those religions that promoted tolerance and acceptability for all things and all people were prudent and protectionist?

If you accept the premise that the exercise of our rights is conditional on the acceptance of what others think of us exercising them, I have no use for you. And make no mistake, if you even intimate on the slightest level that what other people think matters, you do believe that the exercise of our rights is conditional.

 

[88GT]

As a fellow gun owner/carrier? I don't care if you walk around naked with your Jimenez taped to your forehead!

I do, but it has nothing to do with the act of carrying a firearm.

 

[Birds Away]

Gun owners are their own worst enemies. We are the only group of people who beg for the privilege to exercise a RIGHT and do so on terms that other people define for us.

When was the last time we had this discussion about exercising free speech and preserving it by only writing and speaking nice, complimentary things?

When was the last time we had this discussion about the freedom to worship by arguing that only those religions that promoted tolerance and acceptability for all things and all people were prudent and protectionist?

If you accept the premise that the exercise of our rights is conditional on the acceptance of what others think of us exercising them, I have no use for you. And make no mistake, if you even intimate on the slightest level that what other people think matters, you do believe that the exercise of our rights is conditional.

Well said. Tried to rep you but, you know, apparently it wasn't the first time I had that thought.

 

[nakinate]

I do, but it has nothing to do with the act of carrying a firearm.

What if it was Bradley Cooper walking around naked with a gun taped to his forehead?

 

[nakinate]

Well said. Tried to rep you but, you know, apparently it wasn't the first time I had that thought.

I gave her +9 for that post.

 

[Dead Duck]

When was the last time we had this discussion about exercising free speech and preserving it by only writing and speaking nice, complimentary things?

I like your hair...........and you smell good today.

 

[88GT]

What if it was Bradley Cooper walking around naked with a gun taped to his forehead?

As long as it's a Glock.

On a serious note though, naked isn't as fun. No imagination. (And possibly severe disappointment.) However, he can walk around shirtless 'til my heart's content.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I do, but it has nothing to do with the act of carrying a firearm.

You've never seen me naked!























Or have you?

 

[nakinate]

I like your hair...........and you smell good today.

88GT...I think the duck is stalking you. Unless he can smell stuff through his computer.

 

[88GT]

88GT...I think the duck is stalking you. Unless he can smell stuff through his computer.

I did shower yesterday. And Pantene does have a nice fragrance.

 

[nakinate]

I did shower yesterday. And Pantene does have a nice fragrance.

Have you looked behind you recently?

 

[88GT]

Two GSDs and a very messy school room/office. But no ducks. Though the big picture window is open. If he has a set of binoculars.....

 

[David D]

Gun owners are their own worst enemies. We are the only group of people who beg for the privilege to exercise a RIGHT and do so on terms that other people define for us.

When was the last time we had this discussion about exercising free speech and preserving it by only writing and speaking nice, complimentary things?

When was the last time we had this discussion about the freedom to worship by arguing that only those religions that promoted tolerance and acceptability for all things and all people were prudent and protectionist?

If you accept the premise that the exercise of our rights is conditional on the acceptance of what others think of us exercising them, I have no use for you. And make no mistake, if you even intimate on the slightest level that what other people think matters, you do believe that the exercise of our rights is conditional.

I am not trying to start an argument, but if you are going to quote me, it would be nice (and a more accurate representation) if you would include the entire quote.

My second paragraph was as follows: Like Bfish, I am not implying that one shouldn't be allowed to carry unless they are dressed in my preferred manner, only that like it or not, the sheeple do judge us based on what they see. Even realizing that to some, "perception is reality", I do believe that if we (gun toters) are seen as a cross section of society, we will eventually be accepted as no different (aka - not a threat) than the rest of society.

I agree with your statement that gun owners are our own worst enemies, but suggest that you might consider looking in the mirror when making this statement.

Again, I do not wish to make an adversary, but would ask you to consider the logic of people with perspectives other than your own.

 

[88GT]

I am not trying to start an argument, but if you are going to quote me, it would be nice (and a more accurate representation) if you would include the entire quote.

I wasn't concerned with your other comments. Your admission that you think our rights are dependent on the opinions of others is the only point I was concerned with addressing.

My second paragraph was as follows: Like Bfish, I am not implying that one shouldn't be allowed to carry unless they are dressed in my preferred manner, only that like it or not, the sheeple do judge us based on what they see. Even realizing that to some, "perception is reality", I do believe that if we (gun toters) are seen as a cross section of society, we will eventually be accepted as no different (aka - not a threat) than the rest of society.

Yes, I read it. Again, it wasn't what I was concerned with addressing at it merely expanded on the main point. But, if you want me to dissect the entire post, how 'bout this? You contradict yourself. We can't be seen as a cross section of society because you want us all to look and behave a particular way. We already are no different than the rest of society. Gun owners are represented by every possible characteristic in society. If you want people to "accept" us as we are, stop arguing that changing us to increase that acceptance is the way to go.

I agree with your statement that gun owners are our own worst enemies, but suggest that you might consider looking in the mirror when making this statement.

And what of my behavior or position makes me an enemy to firearms owners? As far as I can tell, I AM part of the cross section of society and I dont' go around telling people how they need to behave in order to earn their right to carry. In fact, I don't put much in the way of limitations on fellow gun owners.

Again, I do not wish to make an adversary, but would ask you to consider the logic of people with perspectives other than your own.

I'm all about the logic. There is no logic is asking permission to exercise a right with external conditions applied to it. Because that means it's no longer a right.

 

[David D]

I wasn't concerned with your other comments. Your admission that you think our rights are dependent on the opinions of others is the only point I was concerned with addressing.


Yes, I read it. Again, it wasn't what I was concerned with addressing at it merely expanded on the main point. But, if you want me to dissect the entire post, how 'bout this? You contradict yourself. We can't be seen as a cross section of society because you want us all to look and behave a particular way. We already are no different than the rest of society. Gun owners are represented by every possible characteristic in society. If you want people to "accept" us as we are, stop arguing that changing us to increase that acceptance is the way to go.


And what of my behavior or position makes me an enemy to firearms owners? As far as I can tell, I AM part of the cross section of society and I dont' go around telling people how they need to behave in order to earn their right to carry. In fact, I don't put much in the way of limitations on fellow gun owners.


I'm all about the logic. There is no logic is asking permission to exercise a right with external conditions applied to it. Because that means it's no longer a right.

What language are you speaking and whose posts are you reading? Can you please tell me where I stated or even implied that I think our rights are dependant on the opinions of others? For what it is worth, our laws are dependant on the opinions of others.