Carmel PD and Illegal Traffic Tickets

[Route 45]

Revenue enhancement?!?!?!!?? I thought tickets were ONLY to enhance safety for the fine citizens of Indiana.

If that's true, then US 31 between I-465 and State Road 38 is the safest place in the state.

Not sure who is minding the store within the actual cities of Carmel and Westfield, though.......

 

[bwframe]

I always knew kutnupe was up to no good

 

[jsharmon7]

A couple of weeks ago, the Court of Appeals ruled that all such ordinances were contrary to law and could not be enforced.

Could you share a link to this?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Lol, I think I wrote about 10 citations under 8-2, last year. But admittedly made a whole lot of stops under the ordinance. I hate running traffic for the sake of simply running traffic.

Kut (has different motives)

 

[Fargo]

Could you share a link to this?

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/12111501msm.pdf

 

[IndyDave1776]

Revenue enhancement?!?!?!!?? I thought tickets were ONLY to enhance safety for the fine citizens of Indiana.

My world view is shattered.







SHATTERED I tell you!

Lol, I think I wrote about 10 citations under 8-2, last year. But admittedly made a whole lot of stops under the ordinance. I hate running traffic for the sake of simply running traffic.

Kut (has different motives)

Kut (doesn't want to make money, folks!) (he just wants to curb-stomp people!)

I know, that was a cheap shot, but it was just too good an opportunity to pass up!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut (doesn't want to make money, folks!) (he just wants to curb-stomp people!)

I know, that was a cheap shot, but it was just too good an opportunity to pass up!

Not a cheap shot at all. I laughed. I certainly don't want to make money for the city, I legitimately want to keep people from Indianapolis south of 96th St

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Not a cheap shot at all. I laughed. I certainly don't want to make money for the city, I legitimately want to keep people from Indianapolis south of 96th St

Heh! I'd like to keep all y'all north of County Line Rd.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Heh! I'd like to keep all y'all north of County Line Rd.

Don't worry, they typically scurry back to the safety of the Golden Ghetto when the sun sets.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Not a cheap shot at all. I laughed. I certainly don't want to make money for the city, I legitimately want to keep people from Indianapolis south of 96th St

I figured if nothing else using a variant of Don Davis's infamous slogan would constitute fighting words!

 

[T.Lex]

There is a state statute that says that local ordinances cannot duplicate state statutes. IC 36-1-3-8(8)

Carmel, and some other communities, decided to ignore that statute and pass an ordinance duplicating part or all of the state traffic code.

They then direct the police to stop writing tickets under the traffic code and to write them as ordinance violations in an effort to circumvent Indiana's constitutional provisions on ticket funds going into the Common School Fund.

What they did was plainly contrary to law, and they knew that. They just figured they would milk as much money out of the populace as they could before someone appealed them. ...

Somewhat ironically, the main reason for the pre-emption law (forbidding local ordinances) is to make sure the state keeps the cow and all the milk.

 

[jagee]

Not a cheap shot at all. I laughed. I certainly don't want to make money for the city, I legitimately want to keep people from Indianapolis south of 96th St

I try to avoid places north of 96th St if possible.

 

[Fargo]

Somewhat ironically, the main reason for the pre-emption law (forbidding local ordinances) is to make sure the state keeps the cow and all the milk.

Are you certain on that? As I understand it, Infraction fines go into the Common School Fund where they cannot be spent but rather only used as collateral against which School Corporations can be extended credit. I believe there are Billions in it but no way to spend any of it.

That said, that is more your area than mine so I am more than open to correction.

 

[churchmouse]

Not a cheap shot at all. I laughed. I certainly don't want to make money for the city, I legitimately want to keep people from Indianapolis south of 96th St

​Oh we are coming now.....believe it.......

 

[IndyDave1776]

​Oh we are coming now.....believe it.......

INGO raid on Carmel. Muster at CM's house at time to be announced and then north up Meridian until Kut doesn't believe his eyes!

 

[T.Lex]

Are you certain on that? As I understand it, Infraction fines go into the Common School Fund where they cannot be spent but rather only used as collateral against which School Corporations can be extended credit. I believe there are Billions in it but no way to spend any of it.

Fees collected on ordinance violations (OV) are different than infractions (IF). At one point, I'd researched the snot out of all the places the money goes, and there is a difference. For the OVs, I think there was a part of the fees - not the fines - that went to the city. It was something that didn't have a corollary between state/municipality.

It also led to a difference in deferral fees between the city and the county. Again, I can't remember the specifics, but some people got ticked off about it. Deferral/diversion funds are another big bank account with no clear way to spend it, as I recall.

 

[Fargo]

Fees collected on ordinance violations (OV) are different than infractions (IF). At one point, I'd researched the snot out of all the places the money goes, and there is a difference. For the OVs, I think there was a part of the fees - not the fines - that went to the city. It was something that didn't have a corollary between state/municipality.

It also led to a difference in deferral fees between the city and the county. Again, I can't remember the specifics, but some people got ticked off about it. Deferral/diversion funds are another big bank account with no clear way to spend it, as I recall.

By fees, you are meaning court costs, correct? I was under the impression that fines off an OV remained with the city. I've never looked at the fee breakdown on an OV. I do seem to recall that more fees stay local on a deferred IF than a judgment entered IF.

Deferred IF money is easily spent. I don't know about deferred OV.

 

[T.Lex]

At least "back in the day" we only spent the OV deferral money for reasonably-arguably expenses related to the deferral program. I don't know if that's still the case. It kept growing to a big number, but there was no clear guidance on how to spend it.

As for the OV breakdown, for some reason I'm thinking it was a segment of the court costs rather than fines. I may have that wrong now, though. I just remember a spreadsheet I'd done that had either different categories or even different amounts for the same category between IF and OV. And the statutory references for what went into court costs/fines were byzantine. I mean, really bad.

But I'm sure things have gotten better since then.

 

[Fargo]

At least "back in the day" we only spent the OV deferral money for reasonably-arguably expenses related to the deferral program. I don't know if that's still the case. It kept growing to a big number, but there was no clear guidance on how to spend it.

As for the OV breakdown, for some reason I'm thinking it was a segment of the court costs rather than fines. I may have that wrong now, though. I just remember a spreadsheet I'd done that had either different categories or even different amounts for the same category between IF and OV. And the statutory references for what went into court costs/fines were byzantine. I mean, really bad.

But I'm sure things have gotten better since then.

Yeah, totally. Just like the revised criminal code is so much clearer and easier to understand.....

 

[Woobie]

Well, since there's all this money floating around out there, how about we buy another MRAP for Tippecanoe County?