Campus 'Active Shooter' Plans

[looney2ns]

Don't forget your tactical scissors that the guberment recommends.

 

[looney2ns]

Don't forget the scissors.
Homeland Security has advice for confronting mass murders: scissors - NYPOST.com

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

The policy at Rose-Hulman is no guns on campus...even in vehicles.

That's not true. I asked the question during orientation and the president of the university said there's no prohibition of firearms on Rose-Hulman campus. I asked about visitors (ME), he said same thing. As a private university they make their own rules and licensed students may carry on campus as any place else.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Rose also has a gun club:

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/groups/GunClub/Public/HTML/about.html

They teach gun safety and support the NRA.

Like I said, my son attends and has introduced me to several students and faculty that carry. Trust me - Rose is definitely NOT a gun free zone.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

The document issued from Ball State (I should like to think Ball-less State) appears to have been written by an attorney, or worse yet, some idiot professor.

As I have read it, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as if the plan directs people to places to be slaughtered.

My plan would be simple:
1. Run like hell.
2. If you cannot do (1) above, take the shooter out.
3. Do not get in the way of the police.
4. Survive under any circumstances.

 

[ultra...good]

This is how University of Wisconsin Green Bay would like you to defend yourself;

When a hostile person (s) is actively causing death or serious bodily injury or the threat of
imminent death or seriously bodily injury to person (s) within a building, we recommend the
following options evacuate or shelter.
1. Evacuate or Shelter?
 Evacuate to a safe location
 If you cannot escape, seek cover and stay out of open areas
 Move to a safe location, out of view, or out of the building or area
 Close doors and lock if possible.
 If you cannot lock the door to prevent access, you may consider barricading the doorway
to prevent or slow down the suspect’s ability to gain entry into the room.
 Turn off lights, and all equipment
 Remain quiet
 Stay away from windows.
 Try to warn others without endangering yourself
 If safe to do so, call 9-911 (from a campus phone) or 911, the designated emergency
number
 Do not pull the fire alarm. A fire alarm would signal occupants to evacuate the building
and thus potentially placing them in harms way as they attempt to exit.
 Try to remain as calm as possible
2. If you are caught in an open area such as a hall or lounge you must decide what you are going
to do. This is a crucial time and it can mean life or death.
 Try to hide, but make sure you are well hidden
 If you think you can safely make it out of the building, and then do so.
 If the person is causing death or serious bodily injury to others and you are unable to run
or hide you may choose to play dead if other victims are around you
3. If you are outside:
 Run away from the threat if you can, and as fast as you can
 Do not run in a straight line
 Keep vehicles, bushes, trees or anything that could possibly block your view from the
hostile person (s) while you are running
 If you can get away from the immediate area of danger, summon help and warn others

 

[No2rdame]

My hospital claims they have an active shooter policy and we have supposedly been trained on it. But, that's a load of BS so the people in my department have come up with our own. Note, I didn't put this in purple because we have had some "questionable" employees let go in the past and there is the remote possibility we would have to implement our plan.

1. Have the old fat guy peek around the corner to see if he can tell where the gunfire is coming from.

2. If he gets shot we know we're in trouble. Hopefully, the old fat guy squirms a bit so the shooter will actually take time to finish him off. Meanwhile, we all run.

3. If the old fat guy doesn't get shot we know the coast is clear. We run to the nearest stairwell and sprint like we're Olympians. The old fat guy, being the slowest, will bring up the rear.

4. If all else fails, we barricade ourselves in the boss' office.

And yes, the old fat guy even suggested that he'd sacrifice ourselves for the group. He stated that if such a crisis occurs, there is no way he has the speed to run to safety and he would probably freeze up if violence occurs anyway.

 

[wally05]

Guidelines for Faculty, Staff, and Students - Ball State University

Ball State's Active Shooter plan!

Is it just me or have they already written off your life (and others) and now are more worried about making sure that you don't disturb the evidence!

"If there is absolutely no opportunity of escape or hiding, it might be possible to negotiate with the shooter; attempting to overpower the shooter with force should be considered a very last resort and only after all other options have been exhausted. If the shooter leaves the area, proceed immediately to a safer place. Do not touch anything that was in the area of the shooter because of possible explosives being left and crucial evidence being lost."

Yeah, I would never tell someone that defending yourself should be a "last resort". I attended the Madison County Police Chief's meeting a few days ago and active shooter was the topic for the most part... LE has some great plans for putting together a standardized plan so all departments know what is going on. Because if a shooter happens anywhere in the county, we are all going. The big idea right now is ALICE, which promotes defending yourself against the shooter.

I'm close enough to BSU, I'd probably show up there also if something went down.

We will be doing some big exercises in the near future hopefully. I think Madison County depts will probably be doing exercises at various buildings all over the county. It was good to see that all LE is going 100% into the issue and coming up with some good plans.

As for CCing on campuses, I think you'd be surprised by how many LE in the county supports college concealed carry. But, you can't say it if your boss is not into it... the support is there if someone wants to push it. There was a recent bill that is attempting to be passed that would not allow state-funded colleges to outlaw carrying firearms on campus btw.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I frequently tell my wife that the first rule of government is to make it appear that you're doing something about a problem when in reality you're not doing jack-**** (or making it worse).

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD we had a procedure called the Civil Disturbance Operational Plan or CDOP (pronounced see-dop). It was the usual thing that police departments had for riots, natural disasters, etc. It included a list of vital facilities that had to be guarded by police such as electrical facitities, water, telephone, etc.

One day I counted those facilities. If I had every single man available to me and placed only a single officer on each facility I still had about five times as many locations to guard as I had cops to guard them. Factor in the fact that this would leave me with NO cops to fight rioters etc. and you get the idea.

CDOP was a sham that was impossible to implement. Why did we have it? So that if someone asked us we could say that we HAVE a Civil Disturbance Operational Plan.

"Active Shooter" plans at schools exist for exactly the same reason. They can't be implemented and will save no lives. They exist so that parents can be told that their kid's school has an "Active Shooter" plan. Then school administrators pray that a shooter won't come along and prove their plan is crap.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

Totally agree Liberty. I find it interesting that campus police isn't mentioned. Are they not allowe to engage a shooter?

 

[wally05]

I frequently tell my wife that the first rule of government is to make it appear that you're doing something about a problem when in reality you're not doing jack-**** (or making it worse).

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD we had a procedure called the Civil Disturbance Operational Plan or CDOP (pronounced see-dop). It was the usual thing that police departments had for riots, natural disasters, etc. It included a list of vital facilities that had to be guarded by police such as electrical facitities, water, telephone, etc.

One day I counted those facilities. If I had every single man available to me and placed only a single officer on each facility I still had about five times as many locations to guard as I had cops to guard them. Factor in the fact that this would leave me with NO cops to fight rioters etc. and you get the idea.

CDOP was a sham that was impossible to implement. Why did we have it? So that if someone asked us we could say that we HAVE a Civil Disturbance Operational Plan.

"Active Shooter" plans at schools exist for exactly the same reason. They can't be implemented and will save no lives. They exist so that parents can be told that their kid's school has an "Active Shooter" plan. Then school administrators pray that a shooter won't come along and prove their plan is crap.

I don't quite agree with that. Maybe some are like that, but definitely not all. But I know several depts that actually practice the implementation of theirs on a yearly basis with live exercises and "call outs". The dept's resources would be used all on that active shooter situation. County and other local PDs would arrive for support and even maybe to take calls for the dept so they could focus on the problem at hand if it was extended.

You challenge it by asking 1. When was the last time your local/university PD actually practiced the plan? and 2. When was the last time this plan was reviewed/approved? You'll be able to tell very quickly if the admin is full of crap with those two questions.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I don't quite agree with that. Maybe some are like that, but definitely not all. But I know several depts that actually practice the implementation of theirs on a yearly basis with live exercises and "call outs". The dept's resources would be used all on that active shooter situation. County and other local PDs would arrive for support and even maybe to take calls for the dept so they could focus on the problem at hand if it was extended.

You challenge it by asking 1. When was the last time your local/university PD actually practiced the plan? and 2. When was the last time this plan was reviewed/approved? You'll be able to tell very quickly if the admin is full of crap with those two questions.

I don't have to ask any of those questions. It doesn't matter how good the organization THINKS the plan is or how many times they practice it. It won't work. Not ever.

The only thing that will work is a clear-headed man or woman with a gun who is right there when it hits the fan and takes the shooter out.

I think all of us here know that.

 

[wally05]

I don't have to ask any of those questions. It doesn't matter how good the organization THINKS the plan is or how many times they practice it. It won't work. Not ever.

The only thing that will work is a clear-headed man or woman with a gun who is right there when it hits the fan and takes the shooter out.

I think all of us here know that.

What? A person with a gun on the inside is not the only answer. It's an addition, but not the only answer. I wouldn't speak for the entire forum saying something like that. No matter how much a concealed carrying citizen trains, he/she can never be ready enough to take on a man with multiple rifles, large amount of ammo, and a plan. You still need first responders to get to that situation to help shut the shooter down if people on the inside were not able to do it.

so, by your standard, depts shouldn't even try to train others or train themselves to respond to the situation?

 

[Liberty Sanders]

What? A person with a gun on the inside is not the only answer. It's an addition, but not the only answer. I wouldn't speak for the entire forum saying something like that. No matter how much a concealed carrying citizen trains, he/she can never be ready enough to take on a man with multiple rifles, large amount of ammo, and a plan. You still need first responders to get to that situation to help shut the shooter down if people on the inside were not able to do it.

so, by your standard, depts shouldn't even try to train others or train themselves to respond to the situation?

No, I'm saying that if there is no armed citizen there you're assured of a large body count, which no LEO agency has any hope of preventing. If body count is your standard, no LEO agency has a plan with any hope of success.

And yes, a single armed citizen CAN be ready for a man with multiple rifles, large amounts of ammo and a plan.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

I'm a huge fan of one well placed shot.

In any event, one man with two 15-round magazines just may keep him busy until someone can respond and in so doing save lives.

Of course first response has to be ready. They have to train and do their dead level best, but it takes time to get there. One or more carrying citizens on the spot can sure make a huge difference.

 

[drillsgt]

What? A person with a gun on the inside is not the only answer. It's an addition, but not the only answer. I wouldn't speak for the entire forum saying something like that. No matter how much a concealed carrying citizen trains, he/she can never be ready enough to take on a man with multiple rifles, large amount of ammo, and a plan. You still need first responders to get to that situation to help shut the shooter down if people on the inside were not able to do it.

so, by your standard, depts shouldn't even try to train others or train themselves to respond to the situation?[/QUOTE]

Correct, if you want to be realistic in your training, when the fake call comes show up to a bunch of "dead" people laying on the ground and then proceed to just let forensics do it's thing. That's how the real world works. All this high speed training of room clearing/room entry is just to make the sheep (and maybe yourself) feel good but it won't save a life. The only one who shuts the shooter down is the shooter when they take their own life (or in the instances where somebody close by did have a gun). You sound like someone with a newly minted badge, no offense.

 

[DialTone301]

Rose also has a gun club:

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/groups/GunClub/Public/HTML/about.html

They teach gun safety and support the NRA.

Like I said, my son attends and has introduced me to several students and faculty that carry. Trust me - Rose is definitely NOT a gun free zone.

Rose-Hulman's gun club had to sell off all their weapons and equipment a couple of years ago do to an accident during one of their shoots.

Here is a cut and paste from the website.
Firearms and other dangerous instruments

The transfer, use, or possession of explosives, fireworks, firearms, dangerous chemicals, or any lethal weapon on Institute property under any circumstances except as part of an Institute-authorized activity, instructional session, event or duty is prohibited. This includes specifically residence halls and Greek housing units.

 

[cobber]

What? A person with a gun on the inside is not the only answer. It's an addition, but not the only answer. I wouldn't speak for the entire forum saying something like that. No matter how much a concealed carrying citizen trains, he/she can never be ready enough to take on a man with multiple rifles, large amount of ammo, and a plan. You still need first responders to get to that situation to help shut the shooter down if people on the inside were not able to do it.

so, by your standard, depts shouldn't even try to train others or train themselves to respond to the situation?

But NO person inside with a gun is a lousy answer. A gunman can only deploy one gun at a time, and I'm guessing his "plan" does not include running into armed resistance before the slaughter begins.

An armed citizen can disrupt his plan long enough for police to get there and actually save lives. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, they're just there to collect bodies.

 

[drillsgt]

No, I'm saying that if there is no armed citizen there you're assured of a large body count, which no LEO agency has any hope of preventing. If body count is your standard, no LEO agency has a plan with any hope of success.

And yes, a single armed citizen CAN be ready for a man with multiple rifles, large amounts of ammo and a plan.[/QUOTE]

Agree, the people carrying out these mass shootings are not highly trained commandos, they are students or mentally ill, they are still dangerous but them just having a gun doesn't make them a competent gunman.

 

[drillsgt]

The IU President last week sent out a message reiterating their active shooter policy and was sure to mention that students and faculty having firearms was not the answer, call IUPD. What do expect from an Australian academic.