Bystander helped foil armored car heist, but at what risk?

[pute62]

If Jeff would of only had one of those cool CCW badges to flash,that would of made it epic. I hope Walmart at least gives him a gift card for his effort.

 

[Gadgetmonster]

I am glad no one else was shot. And in hindsight it looks like Jeff put others at risk. But I applaud his attitude for taking a stand over evil.

Did Jeff do everything perfect? No. But I would stand shoulder to shoulder with the guy.

 

[netsecurity]

I also applaud their efforts, and success. I didn't mean to come off otherwise. I just wanted to know if what they did was technically the best legally, and I think unanimously the answer is no. But they did what they felt they needed to in an extraordinary situation created by a bad guy. I hope they do not get sued, because everyone knows they did the right thing. Once the security guy was sprayed he may not have known if the attacker had other weapons in his hands because his eyes were locked up.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If Jeff would of only had one of those cool CCW badges to flash,that would of made it epic. I hope Walmart at least gives him a gift card for his effort.

They'll likely ban him on principle. Cant have the sheeple resisting. (apply purple as necessary... Im not totally sure purple is warranted since he would have been fired if he was a worker bee)

 

[traderdan]

It is probably good for Jeff, that his semi-auto did not fire when he pulled the trigger...But if he had killed the fleeing felon, I would not be mad at him! The Indy Star is a rag that I will never buy..and they will take any opportunity to question the wisdom and value of our right to keep and bear arms. I am really glad that IMPD was well represented on the scene, and kept their cool.

 

[melensdad]

I quit reading at "highly trained."

Ditto.

Just the title of the story tells you its an anti-gun slant on the story.

And the pro-gun crowd jumps in by criticizing the hero of the story saying he should not have gotten involved.

But if this was a story about a black neighborhood we'd all jump on the fact that NOBODY ever gets involved and the whole reason the neighborhood went to hell is because nobody ever gets involved.

So apparently want it both ways?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have to ask ... What's with the drop leg holster? Is that officer part of a unit where he possibly has to put on a chest rig? That's really the only reason for a drop leg is to clear your ****.

The only guys I know who wear one are K9 officers. I can't tell who that is from the photo, though.

 

[Trigger Time]

The only guys I know who wear one are K9 officers. I can't tell who that is from the photo, though.

I guess that would make sense too. Thanks for the reply and not taking what I was asking the wrong way.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Uh oh, see, this was a true citizens arrest after all. (I had posted in another thread that the security guard had made a citizens arrest because he is not a cop). You are allowed to use force to restrain someone committing a felony, even if he does not threaten you. However, was he justified to pull a gun on a presumably unarmed suspect? Will he face charges? Will he get sued by the family? These are things I want to understand better for my own sake.

I keep pressing the issue because I'm really not much of a fighter. Most guys are tougher than me (hey, at least I'm tougher than most girls, and old people lol), so a gun would be one of the few ways for me to subdue them until police arrived. If I ever do have to subdue someone at gunpoint, I don't want to go to jail obviously, and at the same time I might not want them to get away.

Civilians are never authorized to use deadly force to effect an arrest, absent the standards of 'defense of self or others' defined in 35-41-3-2. LEOs are authorized deadly force to effect an arrest in extremely limited circumstances. See 35-41-3-3 and Tennessee vs Garner.

 

[4sarge]

Thank GOD for Jeff, another Armed Citizen Saves the Day. MERRY CHRISTMAS to ALL the Progressive Liberals that are Posting their anti gun pro thug sentiments.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Whether or not the citizen did everything right or was close to putting himself in jeopardy or jail, the main headline to it all for me is that a law abiding citizen did something to affect the arrest of a criminal. The more headlines I see where people are showing that they won't stand for this realm of idiocy, the better.

If media spin works to affect the minds of the masses, it is these stories that need to be focused on more and more so would be criminals have less heart in committing a crime knowing that people are not going to stand for it.

 

[Doug]

^ agreed loony1!

the so called experts and the chief need to stfu in my opinion. If I or anyone else wants to risk my life to help someone or to stop a crime or a fellon from getting away then it's our choice. I don't need your permission thank you very much. Obviously this "Jeff" has no training or **** for brains but at least he stepped up and acted which was obviously more than the other sheep did.
and to the idiot who said the police were so "restrained" for not shooting Jeff ...... Shut the **** up you idiot. Trained police 9times out of 10 don't shoot people without a good reason. Jeff wasn't a good reason. I could see him possibly getting tased but they didn't even do that. Good job by Impd. And the guard for backing his partner up. At least Jeff tried.

i do believe shooting the fleeing scum bag would have been too much. Maybe legal. But the tackle ... That's epic.

My understanding is that when you get zapped by a taser or stun gun, all your muscles contract.
If so, tasing someone holding a gun would likely cause that gun to fire.
"I didn't want to shoot him, but, when the officer hit me with the electricity, shooting him was an involuntary response to the officer's action."

Comments by LEO's or others with tasing experience invited.

 

[chezuki]

and to the idiot who said the police were so "restrained" for not shooting Jeff ...... Shut the **** up you idiot.

SPEA | Jim White

How does your resume compare to This "idiot"?

"Jeff" would have been wise to keep his paperweight of courage in his pocket and be a good witness. He clearly wasn't familiar enough with his weapon to deploy it in self defense, let alone to shoot a fleeing man in the back.

 

[BE Mike]

I'm glad that everything worked out for the best. I'm sure that when a soldier jumps on a live grenade that he didn't think it out beforehand and he sure doesn't get trained to do that. I will take the opposite side of some regarding the statement of the officer who uttered, "highly trained". When we decide to have firearms, the only responsible thing to do is to train with them. This is to protect those close to us, as well as, the general public. We armed citizens should always be looking to improve our firearm skills and knowledge.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My understanding is that when you get zapped by a taser or stun gun, all your muscles contract.
If so, tasing someone holding a gun would likely cause that gun to fire.
"I didn't want to shoot him, but, when the officer hit me with the electricity, shooting him was an involuntary response to the officer's action."

Comments by LEO's or others with tasing experience invited.

The muscles between the points of contact are physically forced to contract, but the person can clench other body parts up in a mental response, as well. Tasing someone with a gun in their hand may make them fire, it may make them drop it, it just depends on their pain response. it won't physically make the forearm muscle contract unless the probes are placed in such a manner that it is between them, though.

Tasing is not a substitute for deadly force.

 

[Doug]

So, whether or not the gunholder shoots is dependent on his response to pain?
Seems to me tasing someone holding a gun would be a bad idea.

 

[chezuki]

Seems to me tasing someone holding a gun would be a bad idea.

Obviously this ^^ because of this vv.

Tasing is not a substitute for deadly force.

 

[atvdave]

No, he shouldn't have tried to shoot he guy. But if criminals knew they were surrounded by guys who weren't going to take it anymore and we're going to fight back and win, there would be a lot less crime.

The chase-ending tackle needs to be on a security camera somewhere. I see an animated gif in his future.

I'm sure by the end of the week their will be grainy video posted somewhere.

 

[chezuki]

I'm sure by the end of the week their will be grainy video posted somewhere.

I'm honestly surprised no phone footage has surfaced.

Edit: Not very exciting, but phones were out. Maybe more to come?

[video=youtube_share;b2jzblj2pmg]http://youtu.be/b2jzblj2pmg[/video]

 

[Old_grunt]

Uh oh, see, this was a true citizens arrest after all. (I had posted in another thread that the security guard had made a citizens arrest because he is not a cop). You are allowed to use force to restrain someone committing a felony, even if he does not threaten you. However, was he justified to pull a gun on a presumably unarmed suspect? Will he face charges? Will he get sued by the family? These are things I want to understand better for my own sake.

I keep pressing the issue because I'm really not much of a fighter. Most guys are tougher than me (hey, at least I'm tougher than most girls, and old people lol), so a gun would be one of the few ways for me to subdue them until police arrived. If I ever do have to subdue someone at gunpoint, I don't want to go to jail obviously, and at the same time I might not want them to get away.

Contact Guy Relford The Law Offices of Guy A. Relford or Tactical Firearms Training