Bug out gun

[WETSU]

I can hit a man sized target at 300 meters with my AK, using iron sights. I can do it with monotonous regularity at 150. The AK is is GTG at that distance.

 

[Sailor]

I have smoke detectors and life insurance also. I guess I am really nervous!

Im gonna try my best not to bug out.

Some of you folks are just plum nervous.

 

[Sailor]

All true, but the topic is bugging out. Even the best prepared can find themselves forced to move.

I think people should be more worried about what food they are going to store, or grow, than what weapons they have. If you have food stored, and want weapons for defense of it, that's different. But to have no food and plenty of guns means that you are very likely going to become a bandit or looter. Hunting? Forget about that. If SHTF, and people no longer care about hunting laws, EVERY deer in Indiana will be dead in a week. (They were extinct here during the great depression due to over hunting, back when we had probably less than half of the people we have here now.)

One of the biggest dangers to me and mine, if SHTF, is people whose only "preps" were guns 'n ammo, and I have prepared for this, in addition to food stocks. If your plan is to roam the Indiana countryside looking for people with better preparations, I'd strongly suggest thinking twice. All of us should hope that everyone has several months of food and water on hand. And all of us should prepare with those who don't in mind.

 

[cosermann]

 

[dlsjoquist]

Black gun and glock... Although where I am at, home is the best defensive position...

 

[RandyN2075]

My wife will pack her P22 w/laser and 10-22. I will carry my glock .40 cal but I am still torn between my rifle and shotgun...If I have wheels, I'll take both. If not, I'll have to make up my mind on the fly.

 

[Sasquatchhunter]

My go to gun is my Marlin 60. This and my Krltec P11 will have to do. Im not real worried about the .22 being anemic, I'm deadly accurate with it and have been shooting it so long its almost boring. Yeah it's not a .223 or .308, but fighting with a .22 in your neck would be hard, and getting zipped in the chest with one would flat out suck...

 

[RelicHound]

A sling shot and a blow gun.I dont have any *bang bang*guns..lost em all when the aliens visited me...they said they would bring em back...those stupid lil green bass turds!

 

[Sailor]

For those bringing .22's and pistol caliber carbines what is your definition of:

"Far" "Reach out there" "Out there pretty far" and "Longer shots?"

 

[WETSU]

I would add to Sailor's line of questioning for the guys choosing a .22 for fighting.

Whats your plan for shooting through walls, doorways, car bodies and heavy brush?

What is the terminal effect of a .22 round at 150 yards on living flesh? What will that effect have on a determined foe?

What is the penetration of a .22 round on a level II or III vest?

I guess I can ask the same question for the.45 and 9mm guys.

Not being a d!ck, I want to know what the rationale is for choosing a .22 or pistol carbine as a fighting rifle. If there is a good reason, I would want to know, Maybe I haven't considered it.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

Not being a d!ck, I want to know what the rationale is for choosing a .22 or pistol carbine as a fighting rifle. If there is a good reason, I would want to know, Maybe I haven't considered it.

It's not being chosen as a fighting rifle. It's being chosen as a survival tool. A .22 can be used to defend oneself if need be, but that is hardly it's best role.

If I'm on the run, I'm not looking for a fight, in fact I'm vigorously trying to avoid one. I'm going to be doing all I can not to be seen. If I'm on the run, on foot, I want as much ammo as the family can possibly carry, With each of us having at least one gun, while also carrying as much of the other essentials as we can that we need to stay alive. The .22s prime purpose is food, plain and simple, not to fight. We're not going to be engaging in 300, 200, 100 yard fights. We're going to be either hiding in the weeds, or slinking away. The .22 is quiet, not going to be heard nearly as far as a high power rifle, and can be made much quieter with a huge range of improvised materials. Pop a round of .223, and it can be heard for miles. Even a non-supressed .22 can't be heard nearly as far, and it's much more difficult to locate the source of the shot. The guns are light, the ammo is light and takes up very little room. Between us, we can carry 3,000 rounds on our backs without any problem, compared to a far, far lower quantity of handgun and shotgun ammo. If we are forced into a fight, I'll do everything I can to make it a close range fight, where we can employee the more powerful handguns and the 20 guages.

Are there risks to this approach? Of course there are. It's always possible we'll find ourselves in a long range fight we can't run from, and can't win. But if I'm forced to try to keep my family alive based on what we can carry on our backs, or in our carts, for an extended period of time, we also need to be able to carry clothes, fire starting gear, knives, shelter, warmth, water, medical supplies, food, etc. I think the .22s with a buttload of ammo give us the best ability to have a long term supply of ammo to take game for food and clothing, while providing a modicum of defensive power, and is the best balance of both needs available if you are living off your back on the run.

 

[Hoosier8]

In a worse case scenario, those wanting to carry AK-47 rounds may want to stuff some 22 rounds in their bag as it would be good as gold for trading.

 

[infidel]

In a worse case scenario, those wanting to carry AK-47 rounds may want to stuff some 22 rounds in their bag as it would be good as gold for trading.

Personally, I have no intention of trading something small and hard to someone that can be returned to me at over 1000fps unless I trust my life to that person in a SHTF scenario.

 

[WETSU]

Joe, thank you for your reply. It sounds like you have a plan. I hear many people on this and other boards say they'd choose a .22 for SHTF and then they spend the rest of their post talking about how deadly a .22 is in a firefight and how they could mess someone up with a .22. Its like they are instantly rationalizing and defending their choice yet they stick with the .22 because they can carry 5000 rounds of ammo.

I am glad you have no similar illusions, yet have stuck to your guns (pun intended) for well thought out reasons. Good on ya.

Russ

 

[Sailor]

I see the merits of a .22 as a survival gun. If you have no back up location and plan on living as a refugee or camped in the back country I suppose you can justify it.

The problem is we have different goals. Your prime goal is a weapon to provide food while you move quietly. My prime goal is to get to my BOL(s) alive. My biggest obstacle is other people, not lack of food. We are not going to starve in 1-6 days. I am not stopping to hunt. I am not stopping to trade. I am hauling A** to the BOL to meet up with friendly's.

The best tool for that job is a battle rifle, and a pack full of AK mags. If I live I will have plenty of time eat later.

If I was stuck out of pocket for an extended period, then I would want something lighter and quieter.

No easy answers.

 

[cosermann]

Question is, which scenario is more likely? What does history tell us?

 

[Hoosier8]

Question is, which scenario is more likely? What does history tell us?

Good question. Storm outage where you will probably want to be prepared at home. Earthquake, where your home may become uninhabitable, but if prepared you could still stay on your property. Food shortages, possibly from natural disaster or massive pandemic, where if you were stocked up at home, could weather. Natural disaster where the water supply is disrupted. Other than insurrection or invasion, those are probably the most likely unless you really consider Zombies.

 

[Sailor]

Based on the topic of this thread, we are bugging out. Regardless of its likelihood that's what this thread is about.

 

[WETSU]

We have not had a true SHTF scenario in this country. Not even Katrina. Nobody was living off the land down there, however, Blackwater WAS brought in to provide security and the local cops confiscated guns. Security was an issue, food was less so. Hmmm.

If that was as bad as it gets CONUS, then we need to look at a broader selection of historical events, based on the real deal human reaction to human suffering and scare resources.

Bosnia, Rwanda, Cambodia, Chechnya come to mind. Humans behaving badly is SHTF in my world view. I prepare for that, because rarely do humans disappoint me.

 

[Hoosier8]

We have not had a true SHTF scenario in this country. Not even Katrina. Nobody was living off the land down there, however, Blackwater WAS brought in to provide security and the local cops confiscated guns. Security was an issue, food was less so. Hmmm.

If that was as bad as it gets CONUS, then we need to look at a broader selection of historical events, based on the real deal human reaction to human suffering and scare resources.

Bosnia, Rwanda, Cambodia, Chechnya come to mind. Humans behaving badly is SHTF in my world view. I prepare for that, because rarely do humans disappoint me.

Though many don't think it could happen here, anything is possible. I agree.