Breaking: Truck Plows into Berlin Christmas Market

[Kutnupe14]

Why would you oppose restricting immigration for those who possess a certain faith and nation of origin? Hypothetically, ifpeople from Anti-America land go to the Church of Killing Americans, do they in your view have equal access to our country as someone else?

Yes, they should have equal access. In considering admittance, faith doesn't have a say. The potential for harm to the nation certainly. We vet the individual, not the group. If someone is part of such a church, I'd imagine that they'd, as an individual, would have issues gaining entry. It may be semantics, but that's how it should be approached, regardless of personal inclinations.

 

[Woobie]

Yes, they should have equal access. In considering admittance, faith doesn't have a say. The potential for harm to the nation certainly. We vet the individual, not the group. If someone is part of such a church, I'd imagine that they'd, as an individual, would have issues gaining entry. It may be semantics, but that's how it should be approached, regardless of personal inclinations.

Well we might be close on this, then. I would point out that my religion test is not based upon the religion itself, but rather that they come from an area where a particularly violent brand of that religion is taught. So if we can say they are Buddhist from these areas, then they have not adopted these teachings. Likewise if they are Muslim from Canada, then the risk that they have been exposed to and adopted this radicalization is also low. But when the two meet, the inherent risk is exponentially higher.

 

[Trigger Time]

Yes, they should have equal access. In considering admittance, faith doesn't have a say. The potential for harm to the nation certainly. We vet the individual, not the group. If someone is part of such a church, I'd imagine that they'd, as an individual, would have issues gaining entry. It may be semantics, but that's how it should be approached, regardless of personal inclinations.

I can only laugh at your interpretation. This line of thinking will lead to our distruction.

 

[ghuns]

...I know how to win this fight but it will require men with a backbone to do it. Not ones with soft hands

Tell us please. Because you may be the only one on earth who does. I just watched a show with all 12 of the living CIA directors and even they didn't know, or at least couldn't agree.

Here is one thing they all seemed to agree on...

This is not an issue we can kill our way out of.

You cannot kill your way out of this.

You cannot kill your way out.

You can't kill your way out of this. That's a mistake. It's much more complicated.

 

[T.Lex]

Is is it your contention that here is no discernible link between MAM Muslims from certain countries who are conducting most of these terror attacks in the US and our European allies?

Your question reveals the intellectual laziness.

Islam is a common characteristic. And maleness. And heartbeat. And certain DNA sequences.

The problem is that differentiating on those factors (either individually or collectively) yields hundreds of thousands of false positives.

Let's not seek out false positives. Let's do the hard work (a la Kirk's suggestion) of actually figuring out the true positives.

It is nothing like saying we should keep blacks out of cities.

It is the same logic.

Why would you oppose restricting immigration for those who possess a certain faith and nation of origin?

Because it elevates "doing something" above doing something effective.

Hypothetically, ifpeople from Anti-America land go to the Church of Killing Americans, do they in your view have equal access to our country as someone else? Are not American citizens also owed equal protection under the law? Should we risk seeing them blown up so a non-citizen can come here?

Hypothetically, if people do not go to that church, why are we excluding them?

Let's figure out what church people go to and make it more about that than what religion their church claims to belong to.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Germany releases suspect due to insufficient evidence - BBC News

 

[Trigger Time]

Tell us please. Because you may be the only one on earth who does. I just watched a show with all 12 of the living CIA directors and even they didn't know, or at least couldn't agree.

Here is one thing they all seemed to agree on...

those are politicians who serve self interests. Don't be fooled.
They know how to win. Others know how to win. We must look back to shermans march to the sea. Like I said. War is the most evil thing humans can do to each other. It must be a last resort and be so ugly it scares enemies from engaging in it with us. Hell it should scare us that we are
capable of such evil actions. But we must do it to put American safety above all others.
If we fought this war on terror like we fought WWII then we would win.

 

[Leo]

it. There is no other option in the complete obedience to the teachings than to become a violent combatant against all that is not the teachings.



These are the things that ignorant people say. Ignorant of the Koran and ignorant of contemporary Muslims.

We have be through this before. You argue like my step daughter.

If you have such complete knowledge of the cultural issue that is turning the world into an open toilet of suffering and tragedy, I fully endorse you to step up and accomplish something for the good of humanity and to display all facets of your own self actualization. Maybe the world needs your wisdom

Your opinion of me or my opinions has no bearing on the truth on any level. Your disrespect is not flattering to any adult, especially one who claims to be the sole proprietor of all truth and wisdom. Now that you are slamming multiple others who have legitimate opinions and concerns based on real life experiences, I see the problem is not simply a personality difference, but something you need help to correct

 

[T.Lex]

We have be through this before. You argue like my step daughter.

TT is your stepdaughter?

If you have such complete knowledge of the cultural issue that is turning the world into an open toilet of suffering and tragedy, I fully endorse you to step up and accomplish something for the good of humanity and to display all facets of your own self actualization. Maybe the world needs your wisdom

Dude, I'm trying - one INGOer at time.

Your opinion of me or my opinions has no bearing on the truth on any level. Your disrespect is not flattering to any adult, especially one who claims to be the sole proprietor of all truth and wisdom. Now that you are slamming multiple others who have legitimate opinions and concerns based on real life experiences, I see the problem is not simply a personality difference, but something you need help to correct

Ok.

Let's start by acknowledging ignorance and bigotry are unlikely to be shortcuts to effective solutions.

 

[printcraft]

Islam has a perception problem in the world.
Who/what is responsible for that?
(hint: it's not bigotry or ignorance on the worlds part)

 

[Woobie]

Your question reveals the intellectual laziness.

Islam is a common characteristic. And maleness. And heartbeat. And certain DNA sequences.

The problem is that differentiating on those factors (either individually or collectively) yields hundreds of thousands of false positives.

Let's not seek out false positives. Let's do the hard work (a la Kirk's suggestion) of actually figuring out the true positives.


It is the same logic.



Because it elevates "doing something" above doing something effective.


Hypothetically, if people do not go to that church, why are we excluding them?

Let's figure out what church people go to and make it more about that than what religion their church claims to belong to.

So you do not deny the link.

DNA sequence? Are you suggesting they are all the same race? I hadn't suggested that. Perhaps Dr. Freud just did a face plant in your brain.

You make it out as though these are individually disqualifying factors in my argument, which they are not. I am looking at the totality. There is no "or" between these qualifiers, only "and."

It is nigh impossible to figure out which mosque they are attending. If you ask them, they aren't going to tell you they went to the first church of Jihad. If you want to make them wait while we invest thousands of dollars per immigrant investigating which mosque they went to, you can pay for it. Or we could be honest with ourselves and see that most of the radical Imams in the world are confined to a specific geographic area which also happens to include most of the nations we are on poor terms with.

This is not a matter of intellectual energy, because the thinking is here and it is sound. It is a matter of having the emotional maturity to face the hard truth, which it is becoming apparent you are having difficulty doing.

 

[Trigger Time]

Ideas to stop the future infiltration of Islamic terrorist throughout the world.

- block all immigration to and from all Islamic countries.
- immediately take control of the oil and all assets of such in Islamic countries.
- isolate all Islamic countries and impose trade restrictions and embargos.
- watch as they lose wealth and internally fail and turn on each other.
- when they are ready to sit down at the table to talk peacefully then let's begin.

 

[T.Lex]

Islam has a perception problem in the world.
Who/what is responsible for that?
(hint: it's not bigotry or ignorance on the worlds part)

Americans have a perception problem in the world.

Who/what is responsible for that?

Most Muslims fight that perception problem on a daily basis - by being decent people. Not only that, every time something like this happens, Islamic groups denounce it. Yet that is not perceived, at least not here on INGO. Or it is derided as being false.

So, yes, Virginia, bigotry and ignorance are part of it around here.

 

[Trigger Time]

it. There is no other option in the complete obedience to the teachings than to become a violent combatant against all that is not the teachings.



These are the things that ignorant people say. Ignorant of the Koran and ignorant of contemporary Muslims.

We have be through this before. You argue like my step daughter.

If you have such complete knowledge of the cultural issue that is turning the world into an open toilet of suffering and tragedy, I fully endorse you to step up and accomplish something for the good of humanity and to display all facets of your own self actualization. Maybe the world needs your wisdom

Your opinion of me or my opinions has no bearing on the truth on any level. Your disrespect is not flattering to any adult, especially one who claims to be the sole proprietor of all truth and wisdom. Now that you are slamming multiple others who have legitimate opinions and concerns based on real life experiences, I see the problem is not simply a personality difference, but something you need help to correct

Were you talking to me? Because you quoted yourself

 

[Woobie]

Let's start by acknowledging ignorance and bigotry are unlikely to be shortcuts to effective solutions.

Deal. I will readily acknowledge that.

You have to understand that the accusation of bigotry is often falsely leveled, particularly by the ignorant in a losing argument. We must apply that term when it is applicable.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Ideas to stop the future infiltration of Islamic terrorist throughout the world.

- block all immigration to and from all Islamic countries.
- immediately take control of the oil and all assets of such in Islamic countries.
- isolate all Islamic countries and impose trade restrictions and embargos.
- watch as they lose wealth and internally fail and turn on each other.
- when they are ready to sit down at the table to talk peacefully then let's begin.

1. What makes an entire country "Islamic"? What about the non-Islamic people within said country?
2. That's not ours to take. Sounds like theft.
3. That'll make them hate us less?
4. Why would they turn on each other? Wouldn't they just combine their hate toward us?
5. We just got done stealing their stuff and making them hate us more... why would they want to talk about peace?

 

[T.Lex]

Were you talking to me? Because you quoted yourself

I'm pretty sure he was talking to me.

Deal. I will readily acknowledge that.

You have to understand that the accusation of bigotry is often falsely leveled, particularly by the ignorant in a losing argument. We must apply that term when it is applicable.

Yes, I did not choose that word lightly or quickly.

Are you making the case that it was the wrong word? I know many words, but not all. If there is a better word, I would welcome it.

 

[Trigger Time]

We have problems here at home we need to solve.
we need to stop schools from teaching our children BS they will never use and actualy prepare them to succeed in a job. We pump enough money into schools that education (books, enrollment, lunches) should be free for all students. Hold teachers accountable for maintaining high standards of excellence. Reward good teachers.
encourage and offer strong incentives for students to join the military or other public service programs.
Teach the same level of constitutional and American history to our students that new citizens must learn. I can't believe how uneducated most school kids are when it comes to American history.

 

[printcraft]

Americans have a perception problem in the world.

Who/what is responsible for that?

Most Muslims fight that perception problem on a daily basis - by being decent people. Not only that, every time something like this happens, Islamic groups denounce it. Yet that is not perceived, at least not here on INGO. Or it is derided as being false.

So, yes, Virginia, bigotry and ignorance are part of it around here.

Kut, please keep the goal post where it began. "America" is a deflection on my original question.
Who bears the responsibility for getting these perceptions under control?
You can't even admit that radicalized muslims are causing a problem WORLDWIDE?

When is the last time you heard about radical buddhists driving over/blowing up/shooting up a Christmas party?

And
That's Mrs. Virgina to you.

 

[Trigger Time]

1. What makes an entire country "Islamic"? What about the non-Islamic people within said country?
2. That's not ours to take. Sounds like theft.
3. That'll make them hate us less?
4. Why would they turn on each other? Wouldn't they just combine their hate toward us?
5. We just got done stealing their stuff and making them hate us more... why would they want to talk about peace?

are you aware of the political and religious makeup of countries in the Middle East? No or you wouldn't be asking question number one.
2. Tough ****. We are doing it for national security.
3. I don't care if they hate us. They already do.
4. because it's in their nature and look back on history. They've been fighting each other for thousands of years. It's what they do. They already hate anyone who isn't themselves so again, no more harm done. If they try to act in any aggressive manner then nuke them.
5. Why? Because they will still exist if they agree to peace. Or they can not agree to peace and go back to riding camels instead of cars.