Brace Ban

[Sigblitz]

Here's an article saying ATF doesn't want angled foregrips anymore. Even more confusion.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/keeping-your-ar-15-pistol-build-within-legal-limits/

 

[BGDave]

Has the ATF reclassified weapons like this before? Just curious, I do not own this particular weapon.

Streetsweeper shotguns, open bolt semi Macs, swing down lowers on HK rifles and who can forget the back stabbing over the Atkins Accelerator for the Ruger 10/22. They darn near re-classified the Model 12 Winchester shotgun due to "slam fire".

 

[snorko]

Here's an article saying ATF doesn't want angled foregrips anymore. Even more confusion.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/keeping-your-ar-15-pistol-build-within-legal-limits/

mumble grumble something MOLON something something LABE

 

[T-DOGG]

How can a pistol have a LOP? LOP= distance from trigger to back of stock. Pistols dont have a stock.

The ATF has stated before that a fully extended brace with a LOP over 13.5" may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock. Then it's no longer a pistol according to them, it's an un-registered SBR.

 

[Ggreen]

No different than any other pistol brace. Here we go...

We have been going for a year and a half now

 

[Trigger Time]

We need to abolish the ATF and repeal the NFA.
Or just turn them into A&T. Drop the F

 

[snorko]

The ATF has stated before that a fully extended brace with a LOP over 13.5" may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock. Then it's no longer a pistol according to them, it's an un-registered SBR.

Never heard that. I may have just measured a bunch. An SBa3 on a standard carbine buffer is well under. CZ Scorpion with factory folding brace is like 13.3". I may have shortened up a Kak blade, not saying.

ETA. I did notice that my 9mm AR pistol w/ +/-8" barrel and SBa3 brace is about the same length when extended as my basic Beretta CX4 9mm rifle.

 

[Ggreen]

Never heard that. I may have just measured a bunch. An SBa3 on a standard carbine buffer is well under. CZ Scorpion with factory folding brace is like 13.3". I may have shortened up a Kak blade, not saying.

ETA. I did notice that my 9mm AR pistol w/ +/-8" barrel and SBa3 brace is about the same length when extended as my basic Beretta CX4 9mm rifle.

Off topic, but the cx4 is underrated. Great carbine smaller footprint ready to go than a folded keltec. I like the cx4

 

[Sigblitz]

I believe he's right. And overall length has a limit.

 

[T-DOGG]

If you add a LAW folder, the SBA3 or SBA4 will put you over the 13.5" LOP.

That's why SB Tactical sells these:
https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/lopl-length-of-pull-limiter/


OAL on a folder setup gets measured in the folded position, but LOP gets measured un-folded and fully extended.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

The ATF has stated before that a fully extended brace with a LOP over 13.5" may constitute a re-design of the brace into a stock. Then it's no longer a pistol according to them, it's an un-registered SBR.

"MAY" constitute..... is that like being "kinda" pregnant? Either you're in or out. Leave it to the ATF to leave ambiguity in their bs

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

Where can we find the legal ruling on this?

 

[Sigblitz]

Can't enforce something that's not public knowledge. If the badger letter is sealed, I'm not asking about it.

 

[snorko]

Where can we find the legal ruling on this?

The Mandarins at F-Troop feel free making the rules without silly "rulings" or "legislation".

Can't enforce something that's not public knowledge. If the badger letter is sealed, I'm not asking about it.

Ignorance of the law...

 

[Sigblitz]

ATF doesn't make laws. And they can't enforce something that's not public knowledge. If it was ok when they sold it, something has changed. And I'm not going to ask what. Keep us in the dark and it can't be enforced.

 

[Ggreen]

Where can we find the legal ruling on this?

Sb tactical had this ruling. Idk where it is now

 

[Sigblitz]

Perhaps they're giving people time to come into compliance before they wag their finger at us.

 

[Ggreen]

ATF doesn't make laws. And they can't enforce something that's not public knowledge. If it was ok when they sold it, something has changed. And I'm not going to ask what. Keep us in the dark and it can't be enforced.

Ignorance isn't a defense. So this is not the first reversal on a gun that has been sold. See my thread in general "brace ban". The last couple basically the manufacturer provided sale docs to the atf, then the wholesalers provided next sale, then local gun shops provided 4473s. The honeybadger is more popular than the previous two, but the agency is well practiced at this point.

To the feds this is no different than having your pappys grenade from Grenada. You had no idea it was real but you will still catch the charges

 

[Sigblitz]

Or it never was in compliance, and they're giving people time to come into compliance.

 

[Sigblitz]

Ignorance isn't a defense. So this is not the first reversal on a gun that has been sold. See my thread in general "brace ban". The last couple basically the manufacturer provided sale docs to the atf, then the wholesalers provided next sale, then local gun shops provided 4473s. The honeybadger is more popular than the previous two, but the agency is well practiced at this point.

To the feds this is no different than having your pappys grenade from Grenada. You had no idea it was real but you will still catch the charges