Brace Ban

[Route 45]

Wait. He’s a class III dealer? Okay. That explains some things.

 

[johny5]

I want to be clear I was not implying anything onerous about Aszerigan. While the fees are significant to those paying them, no SOT or class III holder is getting rich off the fees paid. They are minor compared to the cost of their license, insurance red tape, etc. .

I think that is fair and I did not take it, nor intend it, that way. I do think that it can be difficult for people (I know it is for me) to be objective in situations where they stand to benefit financially, even if that benefit isn't substantial.

No other implication was made. Nor should such be drawn.

 

[Leadeye]

I think that is fair and I did not take it, nor intend it, that way. I do think that it can be difficult for people (I know it is for me) to be objective in situations where they stand to benefit financially, even if that benefit isn't substantial.

No other implication was made. Nor should such be drawn.

When you are in the NFA business, you work with ATF guys, that's part of it. They are people just like anybody else and nobody I worked with in the past was a jerk. I helped a guy out once who had what he thought was a 40mm inert round he kept on his mantle, but it was really a live 406 HE round. After a an explanation that the man had no idea what it was, the ATF guys got rid of it no questions asked. Good guys in my book.

 

[jamil]

I want to be clear I was not implying anything onerous about Aszerigan. While the fees are significant to those paying them, no SOT or class III holder is getting rich off the fees paid. They are minor compared to the cost of their license, insurance red tape, etc. .

I’m not implying anything onerous. Sometimes a person’s background explains their motivations. Nothing onerous in being a class III dealer. But I think it’s fair to say he might be biased.

 

[Trigger Time]

I’m not implying anything onerous. Sometimes a person’s background explains their motivations. Nothing onerous in being a class III dealer. But I think it’s fair to say he might be biased.

Was. Isn't now

 

[Aszerigan]

fees many class III dealers, like yourself

Whoa, whoa, there Snorko. Unless you've been paying my licensing fees for a while, I decided to surrender my FFL/SOT in 2017. My choice.

I was cordial until now, but morons like you spreading mis-information certainly don't help your point. Knock it off. Discuss things you know, not things you're mis-informed about.

 

[Aszerigan]

Was. Isn't now

Thanks, Trigger. Appreciate someone besides me actually speaking facts.

 

[IndianaSoloMcfly]

Ingo is fun to watch tonight

 

[Aszerigan]

What personal attack? I’m in a pretty well paying career. The $200 tax stamp isn’t overly burdensome for me. I’m privileged that way. That extra $200 is enough to put something like owning a can out of their reach. You and I are privileged. If you think that’s a personal attack, maybe the fault isn’t mine. Not every disagreement is a personal attack. Jeez, calm the **** down dude.

Save your memes for facebook, unless you fact check my status as an SOT, which obviously you did not.

 

[WebSnyper]

The ATF is (formerly a tax collection, now a) law enforcement agency. It is not a legislative body. I am following the law if i pay a $200 tax, go through the 6-12 month process of getting a stamp, all to manufacture or purchase an SBR. I am also following the law if I buy a pistol, install a brace on it, and shoot away. I am not avoiding any law as has been espoused above. I am following the law.

As the choir knows, the problem is this law enforcement agency is creating law. Without consent, without exposure to public opinion, let alone WITHOUT THE POWER TO DO SO. Aszerigan, would you happily pay the fine if a state trooper gave you a speeding ticket for going 65 mph on the interstate, if he told you he decided the limit is 50 and not 70? This is exactly what the ATF is doing. Congress passed and the president signed the NFA into law. The ATF is capriciously interpreting and reinterpreting the laws to their whim.

It is not an economics argument about a $200 tax. But your opinion that "if you can afford $75 for a brace you can afford $200 for a stamp" is specious and not reflective of all costs. What about my time spent getting fingerprints, photos and forms. What about the substantial fees many class III dealers, like yourself, charge for these transfers. and actuall costs can be a lot different, the world consists of more than a simple AR upper swap.

I wanted a krinkov style sbr. I bought an Arsenal 107UR, about $1,200 after taxes and shipping. I then spent the $200 applying for permission to convert it. After many months, I then paid a gunsmith about $400-$450 to do the work. So roughly $1,800 total.
I also have a Mini Draco with a folding brace. Total cost of that was around $600. They are almost identical in dimensions and function. So economically it can be a lot for a range toy.

This was where I was going with my protection money comment, but you said it much better. Basically, I am following the law with a brace, but the statements about skirting the law and just pay the $200 stamp fee to be "protected" from the ATF interpretation changes, made it sound like paying protection $.

I agree with you on this. Pistol with a brace is following the law, and to say that folks who own pistols with braces are skirting the law and should just pay up, is ridiculous.

 

[Route 45]

Save your memes for facebook, unless you fact check my status as an SOT, which obviously you did not.

A sot? You're a habitual drunkard?



I don't need any lectures from servile "men" who display a strange pride at advising people to meekly follow unjust laws.

May your chains rest lightly...

 

[Aszerigan]

Pistol with a brace is following the law, and to say that folks who own pistols with braces are skirting the law and should just pay up, is ridiculous.

It is allowed by law... today. And tomorrow when it's not and you're a felon? All I said was that it's easier to get your stamp and not worry about it.

 

[Route 45]

It is allowed by law... today. And tomorrow when it's not and you're a felon? All I said was that it's easier to get your stamp and not worry about it.

The crocodile may eat me first, but he'll get to you eventually.

Funny that you think your little stamp keeps you safe from those who will stop at nothing.

 

[patience0830]

A sot? You're a habitual drunkard?



I don't need any lectures from servile "men" who display a strange pride at advising people to meekly follow unjust laws.

May your chains rest lightly...

You need to BTFU, hotrod. AZERIGAN is no servant to tyrants. But he is an imtelligent fellow with actual experience following ATF guidelines and dealing with actual ATF agents. He is not the enemy and the more you try to divide those of us who all would like the NFA to go away, the weaker you make us as a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Aszerigan]

A sot? You're a habitual drunkard?

Yes, an SOT - Special Occupational Tax, the license (along with an FFL) you need to sell NFA items. Not sure about the rest of your comment.

 

[d.kaufman]

 

[Route 45]

D
You need to BTFU, hotrod. AZERIGAM is no servant to tyrants. But he is an imtelligent fellow with actual experience following ATF guidelines and dealing with actual ATF agents. He is not the enemy and the more you try to divide those of us who all would like the NFA to go away, the weaker you make us as a force to be reckoned with.d

All I know of a man on INGO is the words he uses, unless I otherwise know him in person. And I see a man who seems to reek of condescension on those who refuse to play the ATF's little game of making up their own law by adopting strained definitions of words. "Buy a tax stamp and you won't have to worry about it" isn't the sentiment of anyone I know that values gun rights. I hardly think that someone whose claim to fame is the meticulous polishing of the ATF's boots would be particularly useful when the left finally does regain power (they will) and seeks to abridge our rights further.

You're free to stand in line with him at the turn-in checkpoint when the time comes.

 

[IndianaSoloMcfly]

Whats your guys preferred cutting board material? Im partial to Corian..

 

[jamil]

Whoa, whoa, there Snorko. Unless you've been paying my licensing fees for a while, I decided to surrender my FFL/SOT in 2017. My choice.

I was cordial until now, but morons like you spreading mis-information certainly don't help your point. Knock it off. Discuss things you know, not things you're mis-informed about.

Just for the record, the quote is attributed to me, but should have been attributed to snorco.

 

[Route 45]

Whats your guys preferred cutting board material? Im partial to Corian..

I like to surprise my wife with hardwood.