Bird-sized aerial drones being deployed to spy on citizens

[Expat]

I suppose we could end the whole debate, and just spend a few thousand dollars to fly the current police helicopters to take their pictures, rather than a fraction of that to fly their drones. Either way, the cops get their photos. One is just more cost effective.

Not only saving me money, but the little guys should be a lot less disturbing to me than the black helicopter that hovers over my house day and night.

 

[lashicoN]

Not that this dusty old document matters to very many Americans anymore, even to most of the users on INGO apparently, but here it is anyway.

Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

And just because they fly helicopters now doesn't make that constitutional either. You people freaking astound me. I don't care if they are saving money, they are still breaking the law. You can't SEARCH somewhere without a warrant, legally, plain and simple. What don't you guys understand about that? They are abusing their power and torching the Bill of Rights. And just because they can't see through your roof today, doesn't mean they aren't working like busy little rats to do it tomorrow. They'll have cameras in every car and house when it becomes cheap enough and acceptable enough to do so. And everyone will just say "What's the big deal? They already have drones that see and hear everything we do. Personally, I like the idea of a camera in my home. It will save us money and keep us safe".

Cowards.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The latest military technology being brought home to be deployed on domestic enemies of the State. Miniature, bird-sized UAVs, called Wasp drones.

They travel several hundred feet into the air and they are silent and discreet. The enemy never knows what hit 'em.

Domestic use of aerial drones by law enforcement likely to prompt privacy debate

Wonder what it would take to get them to paint those orange and fly them in a low slow crossing pattern across my yard?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Not that this dusty old document matters to very many Americans anymore, even to most of the users on INGO apparently, but here it is anyway.

Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

And just because they fly helicopters now doesn't make that constitutional either. You people freaking astound me. I don't care if they are saving money, they are still breaking the law. You can't SEARCH somewhere without a warrant, legally, plain and simple. What don't you guys understand about that? They are abusing their power and torching the Bill of Rights. And just because they can't see through your roof today, doesn't mean they aren't working like busy little rats to do it tomorrow. They'll have cameras in every car and house when it becomes cheap enough and acceptable enough to do so. And everyone will just say "What's the big deal? They already have drones that see and hear everything we do. Personally, I like the idea of a camera in my home. It will save us money and keep us safe".

Cowards.

It's not searching if it's in plain sight. That should be a pretty easy concept to comprehend.

 

[Clay]

 

[rich8483]

also, as we have discussed in other threads related to simple "ground level" video taping, you have no expectation of privacy while outside, in a park, on a sidewalk.

if these things get misused, just like any tool/tech can be, by looking into homes, bathrooms, etc. then we have a huge problem.

 

[lashicoN]

It's not searching if it's in plain sight. That should be a pretty easy concept to comprehend.

What? That doesn't make any sense at all, SemperFi. My property isn't in plain sight. Very tall pine trees, thorn bushes, and fallen trees completely block off the entire property, minus the driveway from "plain sight". My property is only in "plain sight" to the Feds once the government constructs a flying object with a camera installed. The existence of the machine is illegal, because it provides a way for the government to "search" private property without a warrant.

 

[level.eleven]

It's not searching if it's in plain sight. That should be a pretty easy concept to comprehend.

Legitimate question here, maybe you know the answer. I have a privacy fence up around my property so nothing in my backyard is in plain sight except the privacy fence itself. Does using the means of unmanned flight negate plain sight?

 

[machete]

It's not searching if it's in plain sight. That should be a pretty easy concept to comprehend.

plain sight is not hovering high and slow over a fence designed to keep prying eyes out...

nothing ---plain--- about that...

that should be a pretty easy concept to comprehend...

 

[machete]

Legitimate question here, maybe you know the answer. I have a privacy fence up around my property so nothing in my backyard is in plain sight except the privacy fence itself. Does using the means of unmanned flight negate plain sight?

to the ---imprison america first--- people,,,nothing is private,,,and the cops have all the power they want...

i am really still scratchin my head everyday wondering how the ---imprison america first--- people ever got into guns,,,unless its so they can have them and talk about them and the rest of us not...

if you read any police power post on most gun forums,,,youll see about half the responses or more than just make you go wow and think that we need to pull down the stars and stripes and fly some other flag that represents what theyre all about...

i can tell you this,,,if you have a pretty lady who lives next door and lays out in summer,,,behind a tall fence,,,if you get out your spotting scope and climb on your roof to look at her,,,you will have problems,,,

get a badge and a police drone and spy,,,and your ok...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You can't SEARCH somewhere without a warrant, legally, plain and simple.

Sure can. Police can search lots of places without a warrant. Don't we have an FAQ?

Open fields doctrine in Oliver:

". . . open fields do not provide the setting for those intimate activities that the Amendment is intended to shelter from government interference or surveillance. There is no societal interest in protecting the privacy of those activities, such as the cultivation of crops, that occur in open fields."

Look at Florida v. Riley (from late 80s, IIRC) too, lash.

I have a privacy fence up around my property so nothing in my backyard is in plain sight except the privacy fence itself. Does using the means of unmanned flight negate plain sight?

Curtilage! Get a warrant, flat foot.

 

[machete]

". . . open fields do not provide the setting for those intimate activities that the Amendment is intended to shelter from government interference or surveillance.

like when they roll up in backscatter vehicles that image your house interior or roll up in microwave survalance that show them everything inside...

if you have nothing to hide!!!

cops need to go back to wearing out shoes and stop being so creative in trying to come up with new ways to take away our freedoms...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You've got Kyllo on that one, mach.

Kyllo v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reminds me of the scanner vans after 9/11. The feds could not have been more obvious as they drove around campus scanning all the apartments and dorms.

I bought them coffee after they were driving around on the westside (they used to park right outside my office).

 

[machete]

Reminds me of the scanner vans after 9/11. The feds could not have been more obvious as they drove around campus scanning all the apartments and dorms.

I bought them coffee after they were driving around on the westside (they used to park right outside my office).

they made it all the way to little ole west lafayette to look at people??? its almost like they bought a bunch beforehand,,,and it magically worked out that they found a need to use them...

kinda like how the patriot act was drafted in the 90s waiting for a reason to pass it...

 

[lashicoN]

Sure can. Police can search lots of places without a warrant. Don't we have an FAQ?

Open fields doctrine in Oliver:

". . . open fields do not provide the setting for those intimate activities that the Amendment is intended to shelter from government interference or surveillance. There is no societal interest in protecting the privacy of those activities, such as the cultivation of crops, that occur in open fields."

Look at Florida v. Riley (from late 80s, IIRC) too, lash.



Curtilage! Get a warrant, flat foot.

I couldn't find any of that in our Bill of Rights.

 

[R_abbi_T]

Well thats a cool lookin little bird but the real mil spec ones look like this

mind you thats a very nice looking one. They look like mangled tin after a couple flights. according to the website they can crash 200 times before they break something bu thats a load we broke something every landing especially the props. but heres some facts i pulled from an article
written by defense industries daily

“What makes this little (4.2 pounds) bird so popular is its low cost ($25,000 each) and performance (can stay in the air for 80 minutes at a time). The Raven is battery powered, and carries a color day vidcam, or a two color infrared night camera. Both cameras broadcast real time video back to the operator, who controls the Raven via a laptop computer. The Raven can go as fast as 90 kilometers an hour, but usually cruises between 40 and 50. It can go as far as 15 kilometers from its controller on the ground, and usually flies a preprogrammed route, using GPS for navigation. Each Raven unit consists of three UAVs and one ground control station. Ravens are launched by turning on the motor, and throwing it into the air. It lands by coming back to ground at a designated GPS location (and bouncing around a bit.) The Raven is made of Kevlar, the same material used in helmets and protective vests. On average, Raven can survive about 200 landings before it breaks something.”

They sound cool and high speedbut they are crap hated useing them. Constantly loose signal and crash.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

they made it all the way to little ole west lafayette to look at people???

Sure, it's just down the road from Chicago and they had agents from all over and from other alphabet agencies checking the F-1 students from the Middle East. They weren't very discrete (ham-fisted, you could not miss them) and I think they were just going through the motions because the then Bush administration got all squirrelly about F-1s.

What was weird is that the feds took all the time and energy looking at F-1s in 2001-02 but made absolutely no effort looking at illegal aliens. During this time I had multiple illegal aliens on gun charges. BoP released them back from BoP and into the community. Not a single one of them were deported. OTOH, I had several F-1s calling me about the interviews FBI was doing after 9/11 (funny thing is that some of the guys were Hindu or Christian. It's like the feds just looked for anyone with an F-1 and an unusual name and scanned their house and wanted to talk to them).

 

[semperfi211]

I like playing around on Google Earth, viewing my property from above and entering cordinates from my GPS of hunting spots to check the area out from above. Although the views are a couple years old.
It makes me wonder how far off different law enforcement agencies are from being able to view these images in more current views.
Hey I just thought of something. I am going to have to check out the Ponderosa Sun Club near Roselawn and see how clear those images are.

 

[R_abbi_T]

It makes me wonder how far off different law enforcement agencies are from being able to view these images in more current views.

I can't tell you much more then high priority areas and areas of high security can be viewed in real time for a certain amount of time every day.

 

[6birds]

At 400 feet they are arguably both silent and discreet. quote]

This thread is arguably lame. Are they crop-dusting polio vaccinations from above?