Bad News For 18-20 Year Old AR-15 Builders

[curraheeguns]

Open letter restricting anyone under the age of 21 from purchasing a stripped or complete (less stock) frame or receiver.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/070709openletter.pdf

 

[jtmarine1911]

Wow, Thanks for the info. My brother was thinking of doing just this, guess I'll have to rain on his parade.

 

[antsi]

That's kind of wierd. 18 year olds can buy long guns - including a complete AR, right?

If we're so worried that an AR lower is going to emit mysterious mind control radiation that will warp the brains of 18-20 year olds and induce them to start randomly shooting everyone in sight, what's to stop them from buying a complete AR, taking the upper off of the lower, and being subjected to the same radiation and killing everyone anyway? Won't it be more dangerous if their brains are warped and they have a complete rifle instead of just having a lower?

I need to stop trying to figure out the "logic" behind gun control foolery. It makes my head hurt.

 

[shooter521]

This has been the case since the 4473 form was changed to its current version, early this year or late last year. It was discussed here at the time, but I guess ATF is just now getting around to making it public...

 

[Flintlock]

Yup, this went into effect back in January.

 

[POTI]

Its because you can build an AR pistol...

 

[shooter521]

Its because you can build an AR pistol...

It's a little more ambiguous than that. A stripped receiver is a "firearm," but it does not meet the federal definition of "handgun," "rifle" or "shotgun". Since persons under 21 are only allowed to buy "rifles" or "shotguns" from FFL dealers, they cannot buy stripped receivers.

 

[243rem700]

That's kind of wierd. 18 year olds can buy long guns - including a complete AR, right?

If we're so worried that an AR lower is going to emit mysterious mind control radiation that will warp the brains of 18-20 year olds and induce them to start randomly shooting everyone in sight, what's to stop them from buying a complete AR, taking the upper off of the lower, and being subjected to the same radiation and killing everyone anyway? Won't it be more dangerous if their brains are warped and they have a complete rifle instead of just having a lower?

I need to stop trying to figure out the "logic" behind gun control foolery. It makes my head hurt.

You're being too reasonable.

 

[kirkorner]

that's ridiculous

 

[INGunGuy]

It's a little more ambiguous than that. A stripped receiver is a "firearm," but it does not meet the federal definition of "handgun," "rifle" or "shotgun". Since persons under 21 are only allowed to buy "rifles" or "shotguns" from FFL dealers, they cannot buy stripped receivers.

In reading the "Open Letter to FFL's" I noticed that the letter states the following:

"Under section 921(a)(3)(B), frames or receivers are defined as firearms. However, frames and receivers are not rifles, shotguns, or handguns (pistols or revolvers), even if they can only be made into one of these firearms. See Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, section 478.11 (defining these terms). This is because a frame or receiver does not have the features required for a rifle or shotgun (e.g. a buttstock indicating it is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder), or a pistol..........."

Well then all the FFL's have to do is to sell the stripped lower with a cheap crappy buttstock attacked, and viola, it is a rifle and NOT just a firearm. Thank you, come again...

INGunGuy

 

[Sinner Man]

Wow. Some of you guys don't like something so you create your own odd logic to justify calling something stupid or ridiculous. Very intelligent.

I like most of you and share most of your thinking but...

I for one would like to see less [edited -shooter521] 19 year olds at the range with a cobbled together POS AR15.

 

[INGunGuy]

Wow. Some of you guys don't like something so you create your own odd logic to justify calling something stupid or ridiculous. Very intelligent.

I like most of you and share most of your thinking but...

I for one would like to see less [edited -shooter521] 19 year olds at the range with a cobbled together POS AR15.

I guess I dont understand where you are coming from. My statement was about how a FFL could sell a stripped lower to a 18-20 year old being perfectly within the law. I for one have NEVER seen a [edited -shooter521] 19 year old at the range with a cobbled together POS AR-15. I have seen MANY 18-20 year olds at the range with their rifles and handguns. I would like your definition of a POS AR-15, and what do you mean by cobbled together? If you are going to the range and finding this type of activity, you should really notify the RSO, and if there is no RSO, notify law enforcement about dangerous activity, and possibly find another range to shoot at.

Just my 2 cents...

INGunGuy

 

[Sinner Man]

I'm sorry my response came after yours- I was not talking about your statements and don't know how to quote more than one person at a time.

I've seen junk ARs with all sorts of gunshow plastic gadgets that serve no purpose- that's a little insight that the kids want the looks and the big bang but don't use their brains. It's not something you can call an RO for. A little maturity would help.

I've seen kids shooting ARs with no carry handles or rear sight.

They can't afford a complete AR15 and shoot anyway. That's not safe- no rear sight? Sheesh. Who knows what they are going to hit!

 

[shooter521]

I've seen kids shooting ARs with no carry handles or rear sight.

Evidently there was a clip circulating recently of some Air Force guys training with no sights on their M4s... The official excuse was that there was a shortage of M68s and carry handles in the system, and everything available was being sent to guys overseas. Maybe the kids you saw were just trying to emulate them?

 

[Sinner Man]

Yeah, nothing wrong with practicing your point shooting!!!

 

[Lucas156]

I've seen junk ARs with all sorts of gunshow plastic gadgets that serve no purpose- that's a little insight that the kids want the looks and the big bang but don't use their brains. It's not something you can call an RO for. A little maturity would help.

So I guess if you deem their "gadgets" useless they are junk ARs. Please don't make blanketed statements like these about us younger guys.

 

[Sinner Man]

Please don't make silly assumptions that these guys were anything like you. If you were there, you'd laugh too.

I mentioned junk ARs and stupid gadgets as two separate items. I did not suggest stupid gadgets makes your AR junk.

That was my attempt at being nice.

Now, my not so nice side- if you think slapping as much Tapco and UTG gunshow you can onto your AR15 makes you look cool or even makes the rifle somehow functional then you are exactly like those kids. You seem to be defending them.

Had I stated that 18-19 year olds are dumb then I could see you blindly defending against that statement. Since I used detail, you must be defending yourself against those actual details.

If this is just a misunderstanding, I apologize. If you firmly believe Tapco and UTG stuff makes your rifle cooler, I don't.

 

[Michiana]

I had a customer several months ago that wanted to buy one of my complete RRA lowers with a 6 position stock. I had received the info that they changed the law for FFL's selling lowers to anyone under 21 so I called the Indy ATF office and asked for a clarification. What I got was just what is now on the latest open letter.

If the lower has a rifle stock on it you can sell that to a person under 21 (as it is obviously intended to be put on a rifle upper) but if does not you cannot as it an be made into a pistol. I asked what would stop a person from buying a complete rifle or lower with a rifle stock and remove the rifle stock and in the case of a full rifle the upper too and the answer was nothing. This makes no sense to me at all but the law is the law. I sure would love to talk to the genius who came up with this ruling.

 

[Lucas156]

Please don't make silly assumptions that these guys were anything like you. If you were there, you'd laugh too.

I mentioned junk ARs and stupid gadgets as two separate items. I did not suggest stupid gadgets makes your AR junk.

That was my attempt at being nice.

Now, my not so nice side- if you think slapping as much Tapco and UTG gunshow you can onto your AR15 makes you look cool or even makes the rifle somehow functional then you are exactly like those kids. You seem to be defending them.

Had I stated that 18-19 year olds are dumb then I could see you blindly defending against that statement. Since I used detail, you must be defending yourself against those actual details.

If this is just a misunderstanding, I apologize. If you firmly believe Tapco and UTG stuff makes your rifle cooler, I don't.

Just sounds like you have something against a younger group of people for no good reason is all I was saying. Haven't completed my AR yet. I don't think that you should penalize 18-20 year olds because they are somehow less responsible. Maybe they are but I know people in that age group that are more responsible than some people twice their age.

 

[Michiana]

Could you please be more specific?

I've seen junk ARs with all sorts of gunshow plastic gadgets that serve no purpose-

Could you give us some examples of useless gadgets? One mans trash is another mans treasures. I see some top end AR's that have more stuff on them than a Christmas tree.