Bad Experience with Carmel PD

[INMIline]

Note to self. If I'm ever in this situation I'll tell the cop I tried to kill the dog and missed

 

[ATF Consumer]

Note to self...don't call. Have some fireworks handy

 

[Lobo]

Yeah, nice job on the selective quote there. Before you go impugning other peoples integrity and intelligence, try posting the the whole sentence next time:



It might make you a little more credible...


Joe

"Off to the right into the ground" is not the same as shooting "straight down into the ground, and not at an angle," as you proclaimed. "Off to the right" implies an angle, unless one holds a gun itself out to his right and points it straight down at a 90 degree angle, which is a strange assertion.

And the next time you cite a statute, you might want to make sure that it is applicable to the discussion at hand, which may make YOU a little more credible. Just sayin'......

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Guys, I don't know if this will help BUT...

When the dog jumped me I was facing directly due south standing at the side of 99th Street. Right across the street is a frame dwelling a short distance off the road. A few degrees to the right is a new housing development, with several residences partly framed and swarming with carpenters. Although I think I had every right in the world to shoot at least one of the mutts, the thought of firing in that direction under any circumstances still scares me shXXless. Mind you, I state this for sake of discussion. I did not WANT to shoot the dogs and wasn't planning to unless the warning shot failed.

Had one of those dogs gotten his teeth into my wrist or forearm I could easily have triggered a shot onto the asphalt street before me, and I don't have to tell anyone on this thread what that could mean.

If one or both had hit me in the face or chest and knocked me backward I could have put one through the front windows of the house across the street or DIRECTLY through one of the carpenters very closeby.

When I realized that I could not safely make a retreat I drew the Smith from the right rear pocket of the old BDUs I was wearing, made a step to the right, turned to the right, and fired into the ground with my arm nearly straight to the ground.

Using compass points, if the house across the street was at 0 degrees, and directly behind me was at 180 degrees, the point where the slug contacted the earth would be somewhere 120 & 130 degrees.

As the saying goes, just because you have the RIGHT to do something doesn't mean that you should DO it.

Of course, this only holds in the real world. In beautiful Carmel, the Palm Springs of the Midwest, the above description makes about as much sense as a manuscript in ancient Sanskrit.

 

[PatriotPride]

Lesson learned? Don't involve the police. Ever. Let someone else dial 911.

 

[critter592]

I'm confused here by your use of the term "deadly force"? Under Indiana Law, deadly force by definition is only applicable to force used against persons. Deadly force was not, and by definition, could not occur in a man vs. dog fight.



I agree that it is just stupid, but "deadly force" still doesn't enter into the equation. The question really is whether any force can be used against an animal that is attacking you.

Seeing as that the warning shot:

A. Was in response to an attack in progress.
B. Terminated the attack.
C. Did not cause damage to any person or any real chance of such damage.

There is just no way that it isn't legally justified.

Joe

I think I'm seeing what the next IC change should be pushed for with pre-emption. This whole episode is ridiculous. Back ground checked, law abiding, LTCH carrying citizen defends himself and his neighbors against SBI and is charged with a crime? WTF. So we can have a gun but can never use it unless it's against a person. What the hell sense does that make?

 

[RachelMarie]

I read the first 3 pages..nothing further. So I'm not sure what is being talked about any further than that, but I gotta say....I sure hope the neighbors around here would do exactly what you did. I know I would. Sit back and watch an aggressive dog attack someone? That's out of the question here. Fine me whatever....I'm not sitting back with a bag of popcorn to watch an attack on anyone. What if it was YOUR child...they expect you to just watch and call 911? BS. Never gonna happen.

Good for you, sir. For doing the right thing. Go to court...say your peace and keep us informed as I'm dying to hear what the judge says. If he agrees with the officer...I've given up all hope. Period.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

I got nuthin'....

 

[patience0830]

Ex EMT

I got nuthin'....

During EMT training as a young feller I got the distinct privelege of helping another EMT in training and a hospital orderly try to hold a VERY frightened 3 yr old still with the aid of a papoose board while a Dr. attempted to stitch the kids face back together after a dog attack. He was doing a pretty good job hitting a STILL MOVING TARGET.
Hope your neighbors dogs stay on his yard. Next time shoot the dog. I'm sure your neighbor is a nice fellow and obviously a stand up guy if he is offering to pay the fine for your errant discharge but aggressive dogs have no proper place in your average neighborhood. Especially w/o proper restraint or supervision.

 

[j706]

Well if you can't recognize cynicism/sarcasm without purple text, I won't be able to help you out man. Sorry.

I guess I overlooked that. I am getting kinda used to getting flamed on some of these threads. The fault is mine for missing that.

 

[stephen87]

Good luck with the court case. In my eyes it's an open/shut case, but we all know that common sense doesn't exist anymore

 

[vf-202]

I read the first 3 pages..nothing further. So I'm not sure what is being talked about any further than that, but I gotta say....I sure hope the neighbors around here would do exactly what you did. I know I would. Sit back and watch an aggressive dog attack someone? That's out of the question here. Fine me whatever....I'm not sitting back with a bag of popcorn to watch an attack on anyone. What if it was YOUR child...they expect you to just watch and call 911? BS. Never gonna happen.

Good for you, sir. For doing the right thing. Go to court...say your peace and keep us informed as I'm dying to hear what the judge says. If he agrees with the officer...I've given up all hope. Period.

The liberal pockets such as Carmel and Broad Ripple locally and Chicago, Denver, and LA Nationally are eroding the Common sense or this nation. I want to Quote a great statement.

" Political Correctness is brought on by people who truly believe that you can pick up a piece of Sh** by the clean end"

The Court System now days is cynical. You are Guilty until proven innocent in this country ( at least that is how you are treated in the courts today).

I truly nope you win this in court. You did the right thing and it sucks that this particular cop did not see that.

 

[Pocketman]

An infraction of a municipal ordinance where the officer did not witness the offense and no one signed a complaint. It's a weak case to begin with, rspecially given the section c exception. Plead not-guilty, invoke your 5th amendment rights and let the cop build the case.

 

[Denny347]

The liberal pockets such as Carmel and Broad Ripple locally and Chicago, Denver, and LA Nationally are eroding the Common sense or this nation. I want to Quote a great statement.

I've heard Carmel referred to as many things...Liberal is not one of them. It is a Republican stronghold...like most of the doughnut communities around Indy.

 

[Que]

I've heard Carmel referred to as many things...Liberal is not one of them. It is a Republican stronghold...like most of the doughnut communities around Indy.

That's definitely true.

The liberal pockets such as Carmel and Broad Ripple locally and Chicago, Denver, and LA Nationally are eroding the Common sense or this nation. I want to Quote a great statement.

" Political Correctness is brought on by people who truly believe that you can pick up a piece of Sh** by the clean end"

Carmel and liberal (from a political sense), do not go together. Also, to whom who does the "great statement" belong?

 

[Bucknut]

You should have held the dog down and inserted your finger .. Oh never mind, this didn't occur on a school bus ....

 

[Expat]

I've heard Carmel referred to as many things...Liberal is not one of them. It is a Republican stronghold...like most of the doughnut communities around Indy.

Probably country club Republicans. That is a whole different thing. Rockefeller Republicans is what they used to be called.

 

[Fargo]

And the next time you cite a statute, you might want to make sure that it is applicable to the discussion at hand, which may make YOU a little more credible. Just sayin'......

Actually it is applicable; apparently you missed my ETA above. 35-41-3-2(a)(2) applies whether a person is involved or not.

(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

Yeah, its my credibility that is in question here....

Joe

 

[Hiram2005]

Probably country club Republicans. That is a whole different thing. Rockefeller Republicans is what they used to be called.

No, not country club. Very conservative.

The problem with the police department, is the same problem with the sheriffs dept and most others in Hamilton county. In the past several years they have a lot of new officers coming from out of state, from places that are very liberal. They bring that mindset with them and it kind of indoctrinates the whole department. The older guys have retired and the "new blood" is taking over. Not a good thing. I am personal friends with several of the old retired guys from Carmel and the Sheriffs department and I doubt we will see their kind again.

 

[Roadie]

That's definitely true.



Carmel and liberal (from a political sense), do not go together. Also, to whom who does the "great statement" belong?

Supposedly it won the annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term in 2007.

The entire quote is..

“Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.”


Having trouble verifying the source though...