Bad Experience with Carmel PD

[Liberty Sanders]

You should have held the dog down and inserted your finger .. Oh never mind, this didn't occur on a school bus ....

If that doesn't point out the irony of this I don't know what does.

A gang of Carmel High School Rich Kids can commit serial gang rapes and get charged with Spitting on the Sidewalk. I fire a shot into the ground to keep a dog from chewing my leg off and I'm treated as if I shot up Dodge City.

This would be hilarious if I didn't have that citation to court sitting on the desk in front of me.

 

[tbhausen]

Liberty, I'm saddened (and disgusted) to learn of your predicament, and I want you to know I hope things turn out for you in court the way we all know they should turn out...

That being said, I wondered the moment I finished reading your OP if there was any evidence of the dog attack... Any bite marks or wounds? Were your clothes torn or anything? Did you point this out or get any pictures? I know you (or anyone else) don't need to be harmed, much less have your (or anyone else's) property destroyed to make your case for legally justifying your actions.

If I can get away, I'd love to come to court and see how all this goes down... Sometimes Carmel, IN seems like a whole nother country.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I wasn't badly injured. The officer didn't care whether I was injured and didn't ask me about it.

 

[tbhausen]

Will the elderly lady tell her story on your behalf? It sounds like the officer and animal control showed up to find two dogs in their yard and some guy who was foolish enough to pop one off in the city for no good reason then call the cops on himself I just hope it doesn't come down to "you said vs. cop said"...

 

[Walter Zoomie]

Liberty:

You are lucky that the dog owner in your case is acting like a reasonable adult.

In SOME cases, the dog owners act like petulant children, put their dogs above humans on the food chain, and expect dog attack victims to pay a premium for the privilege of being attacked.

My case, as some of you may or may not remember, got ignorant early.

This coming Monday morning, I get to stand up in front of "the man" in small claims court to defend myself for defending myself.

Ain't life grand?

 

[Expat]

Liberty:

You are lucky that the dog owner in your case is acting like a reasonable adult.

In SOME cases, the dog owners act like petulant children, put their dogs above humans on the food chain, and expect dog attack victims to pay a premium for the privilege of being attacked.

My case, as some of you may or may not remember, got ignorant early.

This coming Monday morning, I get to stand up in front of "the man" in small claims court to defend myself for defending myself.

Ain't life grand?

Be sure to give us the play by play afterwards WZ.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

Will do. I pretty much have it all down. All I gotta do is add the final (hopefully) chapter, and click "publish" at my blog site thingy.

It will be entertaining, educational, and enlightening.

Maybe.

 

[SSGSAD]

I've had some inquiries from some folks who want to go to court with me.

My first appearance is on November 10, at 0845HRS, at 1 Civic Square in Carmel.

^^^^^TAGGED ..... Nov. 18..... ^^^^^

 

[DragonGunner]

Reading the OP post some how brought back storys I've read an were told by my brother that was in Nam. Young Lts. with no common sense, only book smarts, getting "fragged" by their own men.....at least this young officer didn't find himself there. But they seem to be in every generation, an in all walks of life. They love their job....they just don't know how to do it.

 

[henktermaat]

I've heard Carmel referred to as many things...Liberal is not one of them. It is a Republican stronghold...like most of the doughnut communities around Indy.

This ^^

None of my neighbors are liberal. In fact, most of them would be right at home on these forums.

Don't let this thread make one think Carmel is some kind of police state. The officer didn't do anything wrong, and in my experience, all of my encounters with the officers and judges of this area have been very, very positive.

 

[henktermaat]

I've been thinking about this since Liberty first posted. Exactly my thought.

This is why my money is on this being thrown out.

Nov 18th, baby

 

[Vasili]

'WE CAN'T STOP HERE. THIS IS BAT COUNTRY.'

 

[IndianaGTI]

I too have had a bad experience with Carmel Law Enforcement. It was a sheriff's deputy who pulled me over and said I was driving like a bat out of hell and switching lanes all over the place. It was night and he was obviously looking for intoxicated drivers. I badged him to let him know that was not me. He was offended. Things then went down hill. Long story short, my driving like a bat out of hell was accelerating quickly without spinning my tires or exceeding the posted speed limit. My switching lanes all over the place was one lane switch "from the right side of the right lane to the left side of the middle lane" and never crossing any other lane markers. I did not receive a ticket.

I guess the moral is that there are always some overzealous officers out there. In this case, I would start with a letter to the Chief of Police. I would also contest the ticket with the help of an attorney.

 

[Indy317]

It is funny to see some say Carmel isn't liberal. They might not be 100% liberal, but plenty of folks up there are liberal to an extent. They don't seem to have any concept of small government. They constantly seem to want to grow Carmel because that means Carmel's government will grow as well. I think Carmel is nice, but I couldn't live there. They have a massive K-12 system, which has gotten way to focused on sports, so they won't building another high school. They also have highly paid government workers, a taxpayer funded water park, and soon to be a taxpayer funded concert venue. So while they might not lean all the way left, it would see that Carmel isn't anywhere near the conservative side either.

 

[Lobo]

Actually it is applicable; apparently you missed my ETA above. 35-41-3-2(a)(2) applies whether a person is involved or not.

Yeah, its my credibility that is in question here....

Joe

That entire statute deals with force against a person. You can't pick one sentence and apply it out of context to a completely different scenario in the legal world. But you would know that, if you knew anything about how the law works.

Besides, technically, the OP didn't even use force. He fired into the ground. If he would have shot the dog, as he should have, then your argument MAY have some merit regarding a use of force. As it stands, your citation is improper and irrelevant to the situation at hand. There is no protection from legal consequences if no force is actually used, and the statute is inapplicable to the destruction of an animal anyway, as that behavior is addressed in a separate statute.

You might want to pay better attention during your 3 day court stints.

 

[antsi]

It is funny to see some say Carmel isn't liberal. They might not be 100% liberal, but plenty of folks up there are liberal to an extent. They don't seem to have any concept of small government. They constantly seem to want to grow Carmel because that means Carmel's government will grow as well.

The "small government" brand of conservatism is just one form of conservatism, and it is definitely not the dominant kind these days. Even in Reagan's day, I think this was more about "fiscally small" (ie, low taxes) than any serious attempt to limit the government's power over people's lives.

 

[henktermaat]

The "small government" brand of conservatism is just one form of conservatism, and it is definitely not the dominant kind these days. Even in Reagan's day, I think this was more about "fiscally small" (ie, low taxes) than any serious attempt to limit the government's power over people's lives.

Yep.

I wouldn't call the government here all that conservative, but most of the people I run into are. Of course you have a broad mix just like any other city.

Overall it's a great place to live, and I plan on staying here for the foreseeable future.

 

[serpicostraight]

That entire statute deals with force against a person. You can't pick one sentence and apply it out of context to a completely different scenario in the legal world. But you would know that, if you knew anything about how the law works.

Besides, technically, the OP didn't even use force. He fired into the ground. If he would have shot the dog, as he should have, then your argument MAY have some merit regarding a use of force. As it stands, your citation is improper and irrelevant to the situation at hand. There is no protection from legal consequences if no force is actually used, and the statute is inapplicable to the destruction of an animal anyway, as that behavior is addressed in a separate statute.

You might want to pay better attention during your 3 day court stints.

what ever happened to just using what brain cells you have left instead of looking for a technicality to hook someone up? are cops not issued brains anymore or just not allowed to use them?

 

[rambone]

That entire statute deals with force against a person. You can't pick one sentence and apply it out of context to a completely different scenario in the legal world. But you would know that, if you knew anything about how the law works.

Besides, technically, the OP didn't even use force. He fired into the ground. If he would have shot the dog, as he should have, then your argument MAY have some merit regarding a use of force. As it stands, your citation is improper and irrelevant to the situation at hand. There is no protection from legal consequences if no force is actually used, and the statute is inapplicable to the destruction of an animal anyway, as that behavior is addressed in a separate statute.

You might want to pay better attention during your 3 day court stints.

Who cares if he shot at the dog or the ground next to it?? Does that make it any safer from ricochet? Who is served by punishing this man? The shot scared the dogs, as intended. Everything worked out, until the police showed up. What resolution of this case would make you happy? See LibertySanders, fined, arrested, stripped of his rights? Would that make you feel safer? Is there such a thing as an unjust law, in your opinion?

People aren't just going to let themselves be mauled by vicious animals because of any bogus law. Which I happen to believe actually does applies to defending yourself in any situation.

 

[tbhausen]

Great post, rambone.