As Bachmann's Star Rises, So Do The Media Attacks

[orange]

That sort of compromise is a very sad statement about American politics.

However political parties may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

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[Garb]

Exactly what I've brought up several times. It's all or nothing for some, and you are not going to get "all" from anyone.

Janurary 2013, Ron Paul moves into the White House... and sits in the Oval Office and twiddles his thumbs for 4 years. Any sane person knows the Democrats OR the majority of Republicans will NOT work with him on anything of substance. A four year lame duck.

I agree with Paul on many issues, but he will not win the Republican nomination.

Do you know why Paul would twiddle his thumbs? Because people keep voting in people like Bush and Obama. If people had voted for values instead of who was electable all along, we probably wouldn't be in this situation. Am I saying Ron Paul is definitely electable? No. I just don't see a damn bit of difference between most of the others. Every time they open their mouths, a lie comes out. And if it's not a lie, then it's only half the truth. Was Bush REALLY that much better than Obama? Like dross stated earlier in the thread, I can match you bat**** quote for bat**** quote if you want me to show how often the Republicans are lying, don't know what they're talking about, or both. I can't believe people are willing to vote for people who are well known liars.

 

[Denny347]

I don't understand the support (or at least the indifference) for the Patriot Act. I understand WHY it came to be...in the wake of 9/11. I do not recall how I felt about it back then, probably like most I did support it. However, it's time has come. It needs to die. 9/11 was an emergency...I'll concede it MIGHT have been useful or needed then. But continuing it smacks of ulterior motives. I don't think people realize just how frustrating it is to not have a candidate YOU support. The candidates on either side of the fence are the status quo regardless of their rhetoric. For all the talk on here about "standing up for what is right" or "do not compromise your beliefs", when it comes to election time, we are expected to hold our noses and vote for someone that we have ZERO interest in. I will be and have voted for Libertarians (usually but not always...it does depend on the candidate) and sleep well in doing so. If that "messes up" the status quo...too bad. If the Republicans are crying because they lose votes to the Libertarians, maybe they should have done better at bringing them into their corner. She will NOT get my vote...PERIOD.

 

[firehawk1]

Do you know why Paul would twiddle his thumbs? Because people keep voting in people like Bush and Obama. If people had voted for values instead of who was electable all along, we probably wouldn't be in this situation. Am I saying Ron Paul is definitely electable? No. I just don't see a damn bit of difference between most of the others. Every time they open their mouths, a lie comes out. And if it's not a lie, then it's only half the truth. Was Bush REALLY that much better than Obama? Like dross stated earlier in the thread, I can match you bat**** quote for bat**** quote if you want me to show how often the Republicans are lying, don't know what they're talking about, or both. I can't believe people are willing to vote for people who are well known liars.

"If people had voted for values instead of who was electable, we probably wouldn't be in this situation". Instead of who is electable???? You can vote conscious all day long, if the person you vote for has no chance of actually being elected in the first place, you have accomplished nothing. If that makes you feel good about yourself that's great, but you have done nothing to help SOLVE the problems we face right now. Heck vote for George Washington, he would make a great President. Whoops, there's that "can't win" thing again.

My point has always been, you WILL NOT get EVERYTHING you want in a candidate PERIOD. You will NOT with Ron Paul either. IMO you cannot run your life on "all or nothing" in anything, ESPECIALLY politics. Change will come slow, not overnight. That is why my first priority is to get Obama out of the White House. Then keep hammering away at the things we all agree need changed.

Do you actually think the country will be better off with Obama in the White House for another 4 years? I do not.

 

[orange]

Do you actually think the country will be better off with Obama in the White House for another 4 years? I do not.

Better than the likes of Santorum and Bachmann? I'm going to guess yes.

 

[Pocketman]

I don't understand the support (or at least the indifference) for the Patriot Act. I understand WHY it came to be...in the wake of 9/11. I do not recall how I felt about it back then, probably like most I did support it. However, it's time has come. It needs to die. 9/11 was an emergency...I'll concede it MIGHT have been useful or needed then. But continuing it smacks of ulterior motives. I don't think people realize just how frustrating it is to not have a candidate YOU support. The candidates on either side of the fence are the status quo regardless of their rhetoric. For all the talk on here about "standing up for what is right" or "do not compromise your beliefs", when it comes to election time, we are expected to hold our noses and vote for someone that we have ZERO interest in. I will be and have voted for Libertarians (usually but not always...it does depend on the candidate) and sleep well in doing so. If that "messes up" the status quo...too bad. If the Republicans are crying because they lose votes to the Libertarians, maybe they should have done better at bringing them into their corner. She will NOT get my vote...PERIOD.

+1 Won't let me rep Denny, but he's said a mouthful here.

 

[RockofStrength]

"If people had voted for values instead of who was electable, we probably wouldn't be in this situation". Instead of who is electable???? You can vote conscious all day long, if the person you vote for has no chance of actually being elected in the first place, you have accomplished nothing. If that makes you feel good about yourself that's great, but you have done nothing to help SOLVE the problems we face right now. Heck vote for George Washington, he would make a great President. Whoops, there's that "can't win" thing again.

My point has always been, you WILL NOT get EVERYTHING you want in a candidate PERIOD. You will NOT with Ron Paul either. IMO you cannot run your life on "all or nothing" in anything, ESPECIALLY politics. Change will come slow, not overnight. That is why my first priority is to get Obama out of the White House. Then keep hammering away at the things we all agree need changed.

Do you actually think the country will be better off with Obama in the White House for another 4 years? I do not.

The fact that it will take a republican 12 years to do what obama will do in 4 does not soothe me. If the Repubs had a decent (not perfect, DECENT) candidate to offer, I might consider them. I am not aware of one at this time, so currently my choices are:
1) Vote with conscience, and probably lose
2) Vote Obama in to sink the country as fast as humanely possible
3) Vote in a Republican who will sink the country a bit slower than option 2.

If I want a conservative and they give me two socialists to vote for, voting for the moderate socialist over the hardcore one isn't fixing the problem.

 

[dross]

That sort of compromise is a very sad statement about American politics.

The Constitution itself couldn't have come about except through a huge compromise, slavery.

Nothing going on now even comes close to the compromise of supposed values and the stated belief in natural rights that our founders claimed like that of slavery.

We agreed in our founding document to recognize an institution that said one man can OWN another and have legal power over everything he produces and have the right to kill him, or to rape his wife, or to sell his kids to someone else.

Our founders started this entire enterprise with a monster compromise of basic values.

Take a look at history and gain some perspective.

 

[Pocketman]

The Constitution itself couldn't have come about except through a huge compromise, slavery.

Nothing going on now even comes close to the compromise of supposed values and the stated belief in natural rights that our founders claimed like that of slavery.

We agreed in our founding document to recognize an institution that said one man can OWN another and have legal power over everything he produces and have the right to kill him, or to rape his wife, or to sell his kids to someone else.

Our founders started this entire enterprise with a monster compromise of basic values.

Take a look at history and gain some perspective.

Taking this four score and six steps further, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was also a compromise by exempting the border states. It wasn't a perfect solution, but did pave the way for future action.

 

[mrjarrell]

Do you actually think the country will be better off with Obama in the White House for another 4 years? I do not.

Better than the likes of Santorum and Bachmann? I'm going to guess yes.

The chances are good that the country WILL be better off with Obama in the WH. Especially where having people like Santorum or Bachmann are concerned. Social conservatives are bad for liberty and freedom.
As for Obama, I like the idea of having deadlock, figures show that spending and debt normally trend down when there's a dem in the WH and reps in the congress. I can live with that, (despite the fact that we need some drastic measures that NEITHER party are willing to address yet). Come election day I'll not be holding my nose and voting against Obama. I'll be voting for the candidate who holds closest to my principles or I'll do as I did last time and cast a vote for "None Of The Above".

 

[Garb]

The Constitution itself couldn't have come about except through a huge compromise, slavery.

Nothing going on now even comes close to the compromise of supposed values and the stated belief in natural rights that our founders claimed like that of slavery.

We agreed in our founding document to recognize an institution that said one man can OWN another and have legal power over everything he produces and have the right to kill him, or to rape his wife, or to sell his kids to someone else.

Our founders started this entire enterprise with a monster compromise of basic values.

Take a look at history and gain some perspective.

Yeah, except it's a compromise between unlimited government and unlimited government depending on the issues. Personally, I will not vote for someone who talks about lowering the debt and then passes massive spending bills. That excludes most of both parties. Go ahead and vote for republicans if it makes you feel better, I just hope you're happy with being lied to and cheated on.

 

[firehawk1]

Better than the likes of Santorum and Bachmann? I'm going to guess yes.

You're joking.... right? God I hope you are!

Policy can be changed, spending us into bankruptcy faster than thought possible to purposely destroy us can not. Yes THAT is Obama's agenda.

And yes they ALL spend too much. And yes they will even if Ron Paul is somehow elected. Hasn't one "messiah" been enough?

 

[Garb]

You're joking.... right? God I hope you are!

Policy can be changed, spending us into bankruptcy faster than thought possible to purposely destroy us can not. Yes THAT is Obama's agenda.

And yes they ALL spend too much. And yes they will even if Ron Paul is somehow elected. Hasn't one "messiah" been enough?

Nobody here thinks Ron Paul is the messiah, except maybe for Rambone. We just like that he supports liberty and has a good voting record. That being said, the list of liars who advocate fascism/socialism are much longer than the list of messiahs we've elected. Thanks but I'll vote for the messiah.

 

[dross]

Yeah, except it's a compromise between unlimited government and unlimited government depending on the issues. Personally, I will not vote for someone who talks about lowering the debt and then passes massive spending bills. That excludes most of both parties. Go ahead and vote for republicans if it makes you feel better, I just hope you're happy with being lied to and cheated on.

So who should I vote for?

 

[orange]

Take a look at history and gain some perspective.

Perspective, hmmm.

Let's see. We've got a president that is at very best, incompetent. Versus a candidate which is a shrieking lunatic. Two political parties without possibility of a third interrupting the game of good cop, bad cop that's being played on the American public. Both parties with the same goals in the continuation of wars, erosion of rights and freedoms, etcetera. Both bought by the same people and serving the same people, which certainly aren't We The People anymore.

How much history does one have to study before all this looks okay?

 

[dross]

Perspective, hmmm.

Let's see. We've got a president that is at very best, incompetent. Versus a candidate which is a shrieking lunatic. Two political parties without possibility of a third interrupting the game of good cop, bad cop that's being played on the American public. Both parties with the same goals in the continuation of wars, erosion of rights and freedoms, etcetera. Both bought by the same people and serving the same people, which certainly aren't We The People anymore.

How much history does one have to study before all this looks okay?

It's not about being okay. And they are serving the people. They're just not serving you. Most people don't agree with you. They don't agree with me.

All these different people and interests must find the areas of common ground in order to get elected. Don't blame the politicians, blame the people who want what these guys give them.

There are differences in the candidates. Bachmand and Obama aren't the same. None of the Republicans are the same as Obama. They may be much too similar in some areas for you, but that tells you that that's what most of the country wants.

People who love freedom in its purer forms are a fringe group. Fringe groups always have to make these choices or be irrelevant. That's just the way it is.

 

[firehawk1]

or I'll do as I did last time and cast a vote for "None Of The Above".

Then you have done nothing to help solve the problems we face. You have simply chosen to not participate. How does "none of the above" help solve anything? The fact you choose none of the above has zero effect on anyone in Washington. They could care less you choose to vote that way, and they care even less about your values. They could care less if ten million people voted that way. They would prefer none of us participated anyhow. Damned ignorant masses anyway, don't they know what's good for them?

Sometimes... sometimes one has to compromise, and take what they can REALISTICLY get, and build on that.

 

[mrjarrell]

Then you have done nothing to help solve the problems we face. You have simply chosen to not participate. How does "none of the above" help solve anything? The fact you choose none of the above has zero effect on anyone in Washington. They could care less you choose to vote that way, and they care even less about your values. They could care less if ten million people voted that way. They would prefer none of us participated anyway. Damned ignorant masses anyway, don't they know what's good for them?

Sometimes... sometimes one has to compromise, and take what they can REALISTICLY get, and build on that.

I don't have to compromise between a douche and a crap sandwich. I refuse to. That's my right. Like Denny, I can sleep at night and live with the decisions I've taken. Repubs keep running idiots that no-one but diehard gop sycophants want. I'd rather see deadlock than have a Bachmann, Perry or Santorum in the WH. I'd rather see a Gary Johnson there, but you people can't pull your heads out of the sand long enough to support good candidates. I'll stick with my conscience and principles and hope for deadlock.

 

[level.eleven]

I don't have to compromise between a douche and a crap sandwich. I refuse to. That's my right. Like Denny, I can sleep at night and live with the decisions I've taken. Repubs keep running idiots that no-one but diehard gop sycophants want. I'd rather see deadlock than have a Bachmann, Perry or Santorum in the WH. I'd rather see a Gary Johnson there, but you people can't pull your heads out of the sand long enough to support good candidates. I'll stick with my conscience and principles and hope for deadlock.

Don't forget about the frontrunner, both in polls and cash, Mitt. Mitt Romney may very well be the Republican nomination for president. Of course, some think the winner hasn't entered the race yet. Which also means he is far behind on cash.

 

[Garb]

So who should I vote for?

That's up to you. But the more you vote for people with conviction, the more likely you are to persuade the people around you to do so.

"Yeah, I really like this guy, but he's not electable, so I'm not voting for him."

That does wonders to persuade people. I would vote for someone who I only agree with on a few issues if they were being honest about their stances. I will never vote for someone who is a liar or who flip flops depending on which party controls the white house.