Army National Guard Recruiting FEMA Camp Or "Internment/Resettlement" Specialists

[jeremy]

SE You just chastised Hickman for posting an asinine post in this thread...


That is totally out of context.

Here is my $5 question for you what would you have done as the Mayor/Governor/State Military Commander on the Ground? Giving the situation that lead up to the orders to confiscate...

 

[HICKMAN]

That is the most asinine post I've ever seen you post. I never ONCE said anything about MY Morals or IQ, nor did I EVER imply mine was more or less than anyone elses. If you want to revert this to a flame war I will gladly leave this thread alone.

What I was saying is that some people's morals and IQ aren't that of what would be required to recognize an illegal order. Such as those who confiscated or helped confiscate guns from people in New Orleans. As I said before, those who helped the PD confiscate are just as guilty as those who physiclly took the guns. Saying they're innocent is like saying that someone who lets a person murder an innocent person is innocent themselves when in fact they are an accessory to murder. It's the same concept.

But how the **** would you know that if you've never served? What are you basing that opinion on? Its a straight up slap in the face to every one who's served or serving, yet you don't seem to realize it...

Who the hell are you to say whether or not we can recognize a legal order or not when you've never sat in our training sessions? I take even MORE offense as a former Non-Commissioned Officer who was in charge of training soldiers.

It amazes me that you seriously don't understand what we are saying here...

 

[MoparMan]

Savage why must you have post after post, thread after thread talking about the military. The military has done this, The military is going to do this. If you were in certain places and being shot at i think you'd understand our point of view in different matters. Now before i lose my cool as i have in another thread with you about the military i will just leave it to my comrades.

BTW if your under 36 i'd be more than happy to help you in the service so maybe you could see the other side.

 

[SavageEagle]

SE You just chastised Hickman for posting an asinine post in this thread...


That is totally out of context.

No it was not out of context. He implied that I was calling him stupid and Immoral and I never did such a thing. Go back and re-read my posts,

Hickman, I'm done. You don't get what I'm saying. If you have that much faith in all people then why do you carry a gun? Why did you join the army? No one is perfect and if you think that every soldier would recognize an illegal order when it's given I really think you should rethink that.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but my opinion is my opinion. This is gone way too far and I'm tired of arguing with hipocrites.

Disarm one, disarm them all.

I'm going on a bike ride with my kids. Flame me all you want. At least I'm not advocating disarming everyone because a few were shooting at the military.

And I'm not going to answer your question Jeremy because I'm not a governor and I don't know what I would have done as Mayor/Governor. I know I wouldn't have handled it the way they did and I would have let help come in whether or not FEMA liked it or not. And I sure as HELL wouldn't have allowed my citizens to be disarmed.

I'll be back later after I come back from spending time with my kids.

 

[SavageEagle]

Savage why must you have post after post, thread after thread talking about the military. The military has done this, The military is going to do this. If you were in certain places and being shot at i think you'd understand our point of view in different matters. Now before i lose my cool as i have in another thread with you about the military i will just leave it to my comrades.

BTW if your under 36 i'd be more than happy to help you in the service so maybe you could see the other side.

Before i go...

I don't make post after post about the military doing this or that. I post about what I know and ask questions about what I don't.

And if you can help me get into the military I'd be MORE than happy to do so. I hope you can pull a miracle out your butt though!

 

[in625shooter]

And if you can help me get into the military I'd be MORE than happy to do so. I hope you can pull a miracle out your butt though!

1-800-GO GUARD there killer

Without meaning this wrong, just an observation if you will. I have worked for just about all areas in or for the Government for the last 23 years. Active duty military, national guard, state gov and Feds LE. You can believe what you want but we are your neighbors, relatives, school mates etc. There will always be a few "overzealous" types (like some 22 year old officer with a ticket book) the vast majority are not out on some cynical plan to take your firearms, round you up or anything else that has been insinuate here. Now there are dumb ideas aired time to time from some big city congressional member but they never really make out side of that.
but 99% of Goverment employees want thae same for everyone and a large part of us are conservative.

Some people strike me that they almost dream/fantasize about a Red Dawn like situation with Government/military forces. The ones that spew the most about fight the GOV, etc remind me of the folks that talk all bold about "I'd tell this state trooper X,Y and Z and show him. Only to say Yes sir when REALLY pulled over and given a ticket. Sorry but you are not going to do anything but submit if it did happen

 

[HICKMAN]

Hickman, I'm done. You don't get what I'm saying. If you have that much faith in all people then why do you carry a gun? Why did you join the army? No one is perfect and if you think that every soldier would recognize an illegal order when it's given I really think you should rethink that.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but my opinion is my opinion. This is gone way too far and I'm tired of arguing with hipocrites.

I get what you are saying, never said I didn't. But you push it over the line questioning "IQ and morales". You need to understand, it's not just ONE person that decides on the orders. They are passed down from our chain of command. An order like this would get questioned at least ten times as it rolled down to a soldier.

Bottom line is, the SGT who makes that final decision. Which is what Jeremy is and what I was. There isn't some General that calls up and orders some private to go take your guns away.

And please show me where I was being a hipocrite?

Back to doing something worthwhile, Call of Duty 4....

 

[SavageEagle]

1-800-GO GUARD there killer

Without meaning this wrong, just an observation if you will. I have worked for just about all areas in or for the Government for the last 23 years. Active duty military, national guard, state gov and Feds LE. You can believe what you want but we are your neighbors, relatives, school mates etc. There will always be a few "overzealous" types (like some 22 year old officer with a ticket book) the vast majority are not out on some cynical plan to take your firearms, round you up or anything else that has been insinuate here. Now there are dumb ideas aired time to time from some big city congressional member but they never really make out side of that.
but 99% of Goverment employees want thae same for everyone and a large part of us are conservative.

Some people strike me that they almost dream/fantasize about a Red Dawn like situation with Government/military forces. The ones that spew the most about fight the GOV, etc remind me of the folks that talk all bold about "I'd tell this state trooper X,Y and Z and show him. Only to say Yes sir when REALLY pulled over and given a ticket. Sorry but you are not going to do anything but submit if it did happen

I"m not going to go into my situation again about why I was denied into the military. I will say it's a stupid clerical error and I have the records to prove it. Apparently the military isn't hurting for soldiers. But that 1-800 # isn't going to cut it. BTW, I"m 27 so still within my age limits of joining.

Next, I'd like to say that just as there are LEO's who are out to "babysit the world" and belittle all those they come in contact with because they feel they are somehow superior to us mere little people, there are those same types in the military. I know, I've met them. Both LE and Mil. Like the officer who told me that my 45 in a 40 is going to get someone killed when he told me that he had to do 85 to catch me. Those are the people in LE and Mil that worry me. Powertrippers.

Lastly, I don't pray for a "Red Dawn" type scenario. I don't want my kids growing up watching daddy have to shoot someone who wanted to do us harm. Be it a "Red Dawn" scenario or a crackhead looking for a fix. Also, I'm not out to be confrontational with you, the (ex)Mil people on here, or any LEO. I'm always polite with them unless they come at me with an attitude first. Same goes for anyone I meet. But if you think that I'll just "submit" to anyone violating my rights, you're dead wrong my friend.

I get what you are saying, never said I didn't. But you push it over the line questioning "IQ and morales". You need to understand, it's not just ONE person that decides on the orders. They are passed down from our chain of command. An order like this would get questioned at least ten times as it rolled down to a soldier.

Bottom line is, the SGT who makes that final decision. Which is what Jeremy is and what I was. There isn't some General that calls up and orders some private to go take your guns away.

And please show me where I was being a hipocrite?

Back to doing something worthwhile, Call of Duty 4....

Am I really out of line to question someone's morals and IQ if the follow an illegal order? I do understand chain of command, but I also understand that officers in the field have to make decisions in the field and give orders to those under them. A General in a cushy office in Washington isn't giving orders to a private in the midst of combat. I understand that. But orders don't always come from the middle either. Sometimes they come from the lowest point possible as it pertains to the situation and mission. I'm sure you already know this. That is what I'm concerned about.

I don't recall calling you a hypocrite. I do believe I was refering to Jeremy's comment about "Disarm one, disarm them all". Sorry if you thought it was directed at you. It wasn't.





And again. I'm sorry if I upset you guys. That was not my intentions. I just wanted to point out that not all Military personnel are as nice and smart as you guys!

No hard feelings?

 

[MoparMan]

No hard feelings here. Just a heated debate again with different opinions. Thats America-at least for a little while longer.

 

[SavageEagle]

No hard feelings here. Just a heated debate again with different opinions. Thats America-at least for a little while longer.

I'd rep you if i had rep left to hand out!

 

[HICKMAN]

ROFL, I still support the 1st amendment

 

[Zoub]

I just (wishing I could curse here*) love when people who do not know me or my family like to question our Honor, Integrity, Morals, and my IQ...

Sometimes I wish dueling was still legal... Sigh...




* on a note do you know how difficult it is for a Sergeant to not curse under the conditions listed above...

That is not relevant, SE has that affect on people regardless of profession. Your just having more difficulty then the rest of us.

That reminds me, SE did you ever pull your shorts over your head and go march around the Circle with your weapon? Do more, talk less.

Looks like it was a short ride with the kids? Do yourself a favor and ban yourself from the web for a month or two, it will do you some real good. Seriously.

 

[SavageEagle]

That is not relevant, SE has that affect on people regardless of profession. Your just having more difficulty then the rest of us.

That reminds me, SE did you ever pull your shorts over your head and go march around the Circle with your weapon? Do more, talk less.

Looks like it was a short ride with the kids? Do yourself a favor and ban yourself from the web for a month or two, it will do you some real good. Seriously.

WOW! Well my friend.... I love you too! Come here and give me a BIIIIIIG hug!!!!! You sound as if you need some lovin's! Let little ol Ryan make everything all better for you!

 

[Joe Williams]

Also the military and police were taking fire from the same inner city people we were trying to help. Look for the videos of that, and the video where our rescue helo was being shot at by an idiot on a rooftop. I dont have a problem disarming anyone once i start getting shot at by the people im trying to help.

Sounds like the same BS that was used as an excuse by the fine Americans that butchered Vicky Weaver. There are too many videos, too many first hand accounts of soldiers violating the Constitution by confiscating weapons to deny what happened, so now we are supposed to accept the tactic of blaming the victims?

 

[Joe Williams]

If you disarm one then you disarm all...

.

Any soldier who stands by that point of view is exactly the threat our 2nd Amendment is designed to allow us to protect ourselves against.

 

[jeremy]

Any soldier who stands by that point of view is exactly the threat our 2nd Amendment is designed to allow us to protect ourselves against.

And there you go Joe taking stuff out of context. I suppose it is perfectly all right to let a Town, sorry an entire City revert to the rule of the mob instead? It is perfectly acceptable to fly evac missions without being able to even defend yourself and your aircraft? Or how about the relief convoys that were being hijacked?

I was not there, at least for the confiscations. However, that decision was made by the Governor of the fine State of Louisiana. The Governor was fully within his States Laws to do what was done at the time it was done. Martial Law at the time the people of Louisiana and America asked for it to happen, but once it you got what you asked for you crucify the Military for doing as the Elected Civilians asked to be done. So instead of electing new Politicians to change the laws, you choose to climb on to a soapbox and chastise the Military for doing what was LEGALLY ORDERED to do. That really works let's complain about the Army doing what we are legally ordered by an elected official to do. Let's continue to elect the people who are actually responsible for setting up this entire situation. So stuff will change though...

What would you have done differently in his shoes Joe. Personally I do not agree with the decision, I know how I would have handled it. I also have a pretty good idea how the news would have labeled my actions.

 

[SavageEagle]

Jeremy, do you not see what you just advocated? Disarm one, disarm them all? Are you serious? You just said it's ok for the government to order you to disarm American's amid a crisis!!!!!!! YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS?????? DO ALL YOU MILITARY PERSONNEL FEEL THE SAME WAY???????

 

[SavageEagle]

You sound like this guy being described by WWIIIDefender in a related thread.

I work as a bartender and a marine on leave came in. He even had USMC tattoed on his arm. I asked him if he was given an order to confiscate guns from americans would he comply with the order. His answer was absolutely. I asked him if he remembered his oath and he said yes and told me to remember foriegn and domestic. He thinks that the domestic terrorism is the american to be dissarmed, when in fact the domestic terrorist is the person who issued the order to dissarm americans.

 

[jeremy]

Jeremy, do you not see what you just advocated? Disarm one, disarm them all? Are you serious? You just said it's ok for the government to order you to disarm American's amid a crisis!!!!!!! YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS?????? DO ALL YOU MILITARY PERSONNEL FEEL THE SAME WAY???????

Personally SE yes I think it is very WRONG!

However what I will not do is chastise the Military for doing what was LEGALLY permitted by the LAWS of the State we were in. You want to change what happened then ELECT different officials and CHANGE the LAWS! QUIT soapboxing innocent Soldiers when it was not their doing.

Would you rather the Military have defended ourselves during the evacs and supply convoys in and out of the City?

I will not arm chair this decision.

 

[jeremy]

You sound like this guy being described by WWIIIDefender in a related thread.

What just because someone is born an American they can not be a Terrorist, or an enemy of the State...

Huh...