Are You Staying in Jail?

[spitfire51]

Hold on there, Guy... As I read it, that's saying that if you bring it in with intent to deliver... You've very specifically stated that the hypothetical actor in the scenario has come up to the desk sergeant and stated his intent NOT to carry into the jail area. How could he be held under that statute?

Keep in mind, section 4 of the IC listed that mentions bringing in a deadly weapon does not say anything about an intent to deliver being necessary

 

[GuyRelford]

Keep in mind, section 4 of the IC listed that mentions bringing in a deadly weapon does not say anything about an intent to deliver being necessary

Yep - that's the sneaky part of the statute that I want my fellow INGOers to know. (Thus this thead.)

 

[lrahm]

Probably no bond and you will stay there until the next available court session. If it is a Friday night, you are screwed.

 

[Bill B]

Probably no bond and you will stay there until the next available court session. If it is a Friday night, you are screwed.

Lake County will bond you out for a "D" felony for $750-1000, depending on the exact statute. Unfortunately I learned this from experience.

 

[Bill B]

Yep - that's the sneaky part of the statute that I want my fellow INGOers to know. (Thus this thead.)

I want to take a minute to thank you for this and other threads like it. I think that everyone reading them is better off for the knowledge gained.

 

[lrahm]

I want to take a minute to thank you for this and other threads like it. I think that everyone reading them is better off for the knowledge gained.

Ditto

 

[jedi]

You would be jailed for trafficking with an inmate under IC 35-44-3-9:

Bill B should NOT count as he took your course before and I recall that you did mention this IC in your course when we took it at cabelas. (ie. I'm re-looking at my notes now and see it was talked about) Thus Bill B cheated but then again he lives in corrupt NWI where we cheat and vote often.

 

[Bill B]

Bill B should NOT count as he took your course before and I recall that you did mention this IC in your course when we took it at cabelas. (ie. I'm re-looking at my notes now and see it was talked about) Thus Bill B cheated but then again he lives in corrupt NWI where we cheat and vote often.

And I was going to invite you to go with me to the range. was

 

[jedi]

And I was going to invite you to go with me to the range. was

That is OK looks like too many rules for that place.
Eagle Creek Pistol Range

Besides it's in Indy and that is a very bad city to go to from what I hear.
Not to mention we can shoot in the streets of Gary around here for free.

I wonder who Guy paid off to allow the City of Indy to allow civilians on the weekend.

 

[Exodus]

b) Except as provided in subsection (d), a person who, without the prior authorization of the person in charge of a penal facility or juvenile facility knowingly or intentionally:
(1) delivers, or carries into the penal facility or juvenile facility
with intent to deliver, an article to an inmate or child of the facility;
(2) carries, or receives with intent to carry out of the penal facility or juvenile facility, an article from an inmate or child of the facility;
(3) delivers, or carries to a worksite with the intent to deliver, alcoholic beverages to an inmate or child of a jail work crew or community work crew; or
(4) possesses in or carries into a penal facility or a juvenile facility:
(A) a controlled substance; or
(B) a deadly weapon;
commits trafficking with an inmate, a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) The offense under subsection (b) is a Class C felony if the article is:
(1) a controlled substance;
(2) a deadly weapon; or
(3) a cellular telephone or other wireless or cellular communications device.



So don't take a cell phone either?!

 

[Destro]

If your arrested however, and the police fail to find your gun after you've been arrested for DUI leaving a casino and swerving all over Scatterfield Rd., you will only be charged with Crim. Recklessness (and later have the charges dismissed by the judge on his last day in office) when your 1911 falls out of your pants while in the drunk tank.

NOTE: this only applies to City Council members in Madison County

 

[moischmoe]

b) Except as provided in subsection (d), a person who, without the prior authorization of the person in charge of a penal facility or juvenile facility knowingly or intentionally:
(1) delivers, or carries into the penal facility or juvenile facility
with intent to deliver, an article to an inmate or child of the facility;
(2) carries, or receives with intent to carry out of the penal facility or juvenile facility, an article from an inmate or child of the facility;
(3) delivers, or carries to a worksite with the intent to deliver, alcoholic beverages to an inmate or child of a jail work crew or community work crew; or
(4) possesses in or carries into a penal facility or a juvenile facility:
(A) a controlled substance; or
(B) a deadly weapon;
commits trafficking with an inmate, a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) The offense under subsection (b) is a Class C felony if the article is:
(1) a controlled substance;
(2) a deadly weapon; or
(3) a cellular telephone or other wireless or cellular communications device.



So don't take a cell phone either?!

You can not deliver a cell phone TO or FROM an inmate. Only controlled substances or deadly weapons are prohibited, regardless of intent, or lack of, to deliver.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

Holy Smokes!!

So, if you walk into a jail, (which from my experience DOES NOT happen
unless you're an inmate) and you're carrying a weapon, you get locked up.

You might be able to walk into your local Sheriff's Department (where the county jail is located), but to have access to prisoner visitation may require a search of the person. At that time, LTCH may be asked for. If you're packing, you'll probably be asked to secure the weapon outside of the building, or if there is a provision at the facility, you may be able to store your weapon in a secure lock box, depending on the facility.

I think it's a stretch to be whacked for trafficking, when the weapon is YOURS, not your friends.

Only a blooming fool would walk into a detention facililty and say that they're bringing in a pistol for an inmate. Trafficking in and of its nature is the transfer of property between a jail or prison inmate and either a jail or corrections officer or someone "from the outside."

Of course, maybe I misinterpreted the threads of logic presented here. If so, my apologies.

 

[JBob77]

So it is illegal to carry into a county court? I thought I researched it one time, Because I had to go to court in Scott County. I thought that I discovered it to be legal, unless one of the seated judges had put into effect an ordinance against it. I actually called our Court Clerk and another office to find if there was an ordinance in place. I never found there to be one, but to be safe, I didn't carry.

P.S. The County Courthouse and its offices are in a separate building as the Sheriff's Dept and Jail.

 

[magic man]

This one reason I wouldn't carry into the Hammond PD, the jail is part of the building. IIRC, they even house some federal prisoners that are waiting trial there.

You are correct on both points. Some of the federal prisoners have been there for a few years, IIRC.

I want to take a minute to thank you for this and other threads like it. I think that everyone reading them is better off for the knowledge gained.

 

[GuyRelford]

I want to take a minute to thank you for this and other threads like it. I think that everyone reading them is better off for the knowledge gained.

My pleasure!! I appreciate the kind words.

Guy

 

[GuyRelford]

So it is illegal to carry into a county court? I thought I researched it one time, Because I had to go to court in Scott County. I thought that I discovered it to be legal, unless one of the seated judges had put into effect an ordinance against it. I actually called our Court Clerk and another office to find if there was an ordinance in place. I never found there to be one, but to be safe, I didn't carry.

That's a great question. The new preemption statute says that political subdivisions CAN prohibit firearms in courthouses - but that doesn't mean that they all do. It's not as simple as checking local ordinances, however. Courts are authorized to implement local rules "for their own government" under Ind. Code 34-8-1-4. So it may not be a local ordinance - a court might implement a local rule prohibiting firearms and defining a penalty.

More commonly, many judges issue "standing orders" prohibiting firearms in their court rooms, or in the building. If you violate that order, you are subject to being jailed for contempt of court. That's a little bit scary, because if you go to jail for "contempt," you get out when the judge feels like letting you out. (That's a bit of an over-statement, but it you get the idea.)

 

[GuyRelford]

I think it's a stretch to be whacked for trafficking, when the weapon is YOURS, not your friends.

You might want to read the whole trafficking statute again.

It's not a stretch at all - regardless of who owns the firearm.

 

[ryknoll3]

You might want to read the whole trafficking statute again.

It's not a stretch at all - regardless of who owns the firearm.

I think he means "stretch" in the sense of overreach on the part of the statute. Not stretch as in, you've stretched the meaning of the wording.

Thanks for bringing this situation up. I didn't know this statute existed.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

For those who misunderstood:

My meaning of the word "stretch" refers to those all important phrases in the statute the "knowingly and intentionally" and with "intent." For those, I did read the whole statute, in its entirety.

As I read the scenario, it seemed like someone was going to visit a friend in jail, and has an LTCH and gets pinched for trafficking.

Where is the intent to deliver the contraband to the inmate? (Legal Term: Mens Rea)

Also, what must be proven was that the weapon carrier knowingly carried the weapon into the facility and was going to intentionally deliver it to the inmate of said facility.

If there is no intent, I don't see where that automatically puts one in jeopardy. I cannot think of a citizen that would walk into a correctional facility (whether it be a DOC facility or local county jail) and expect to be allowed into the facility and have some sort of contact with inmates and be carrying a firearm on their person at the time. Common sense (which apparently isn't so common) tells us that does not compute. No one inside of a "secure" correctional facility carries firearms within the facility. When local police or the state police for that matter, visit a DOC facility, they are required to deposit their weapons prior to entry into the facility. Inmate visitation at a local county jail would in all likelihood require the same.

One must also look at the intent of the law, in addition to the "letter" of the law. One should nay must look also at the "totality of the circumstances" of the encounter or incident within that framework.

One could agree that one might get arrested in this scenario, however, one might not also, depending on statutory elements of the particular crime not being sufficiently met.

Of course, I would not walk into a jail or other correctional facility carrying a firearm on my person anyway, to save the hassle with the boys with the handcuffs to begin with.

However, we are talking about a hypothetical situation.