Are You a Felon???

[Rookie]

For me, it's simple. If you commit a crime so severe that you can never be trusted with a gun again, you should either be dead or in prison for the rest of your life.

 

[DadSmith]

Why?

Young man is in a fight, knocks someone out, and is convicted of felony battery. He serves whatever sentence he is given.

You think that person should never again have the right to have a gun to defend himself and family?

I agree, and that's why I said a person who has proven they are to dangerous to be in society needs removed from society permanently.

 

[BE Mike]

Recently in the gun control topic threads, there has been some conversation about "felons", with a variety of opinions from "if they've done their time, full rights restored" to "Lock em up and throw away the key". I wanted to start a thread and let others pitch in with examples and conversation to demonstrate just how easy it is to become a dreaded "felon" now days. We assume to become a felon you have to do something pretty heinous, which is not always the case.

Lets begin:

You find some Jazz Cabbage (marijuana) in your kids room and flush it down the toilet. Obstruction of Justice and tampering with evidence

You tell your boss your sick to get the day off. Violation of the honest services fraud act. The “honest services” statute criminalizes “a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services.” This criminalized an employee lying to his employer, and as Justice Scalia pointed out, “would seemingly cover a salaried employee’s phoning in sick to go to a ball game.” Prosecutors were able to get those convicted up to five years in federal prison, a $250,000 fine, or both.

You throw away any piece of mail not addressed to you. “Obstruction of Correspondence.”

You are out looking for antler sheds and mushroom and find a cool feather that you pick up to keep or show someone. Turns out it was from any bird listed in the The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. There's over 1000 species listed. You're now a felon.

Make an error on your taxes and sign the form. Tax Evasion.

I know someone who is... short. They noticed an SUV riding their bumper, after a bit sped up to get em off their butt, and then realized they were so close they couldn't see the lights on the unmarked vehicle. Almost went to jail for Evading/resisting. (OK that's a Class A Misdemeanor but there's always aggravating circumstances that could be added and raise it to a felony.)

I'm sure there is a million more but that's enough to get the conversation started.

It's hard to believe that I have lived so long and never been convicted of a felony! In the real world, none of these examples would ever be prosecuted. It is also unlikely that any LEO would bother with these kinds of trivial things.

 

[xwing]

It's hard to believe that I have lived so long and never been convicted of a felony! In the real world, none of these examples would ever be prosecuted. It is also unlikely that any LEO would bother with these kinds of trivial things.

The problem is that these crimes are "usually" not prosecuted. But they are certainly prosecuted when the DA has a political ax to grind. It happens all the time where one person is prosecuted and convicted of a felony for a "crime" which is widely practiced and usually ignored; just ask Bruce Abramski or Dinesh D'Souza. So, citizens live in fear of having their rights and freedoms taken away if they anger the wrong people, since almost everything is a crime. The Ayn Rand quote above is the exact reason these laws were all enacted.

 

[Kurr]

It's hard to believe that I have lived so long and never been convicted of a felony! In the real world, none of these examples would ever be prosecuted. It is also unlikely that any LEO would bother with these kinds of trivial things.

IRS Targeting Scandal: Citizens United, Lois Lerner And The $20M Tax Saga That Won't Go Away

In 2013, Acting Director of Exempt Organizations at IRS, Lois Lerner, apologized to tax lawyers for the IRS's inappropriate targeting of political groups. Her comments set off a chain of events that would fire officials and consider impeachment proceedings for IRS Commissioner Koskinen's actions.

www.forbes.com

You say none of those examples would ever be prosecuted... but they could be. What if you get known to a zealous prosecutor, or person in authority who doesn't like you, or your politics, or your religion?

And they are creating more things to charge you with everyday. Is there a way to see what the ratio is of Laws Created to Laws Abolished?

Soros is backing a ton of DAs that is promoting "tolerance" of the thugs and useful idiots of the Left. Is it a stretch to believe those same prosecutors might be directed to focus on you as Lerner focused the IRS on conservative groups/Individuals?

I'm just asking questions and enjoying the conversation. I understand your point, but the world we live in is evolving rapidly.

 

[BE Mike]

IRS Targeting Scandal: Citizens United, Lois Lerner And The $20M Tax Saga That Won't Go Away

In 2013, Acting Director of Exempt Organizations at IRS, Lois Lerner, apologized to tax lawyers for the IRS's inappropriate targeting of political groups. Her comments set off a chain of events that would fire officials and consider impeachment proceedings for IRS Commissioner Koskinen's actions.

www.forbes.com

You say none of those examples would ever be prosecuted... but they could be. What if you get known to a zealous prosecutor, or person in authority who doesn't like you, or your politics, or your religion?

And they are creating more things to charge you with everyday. Is there a way to see what the ratio is of Laws Created to Laws Abolished?

Soros is backing a ton of DAs that is promoting "tolerance" of the thugs and useful idiots of the Left. Is it a stretch to believe those same prosecutors might be directed to focus on you as Lerner focused the IRS on conservative groups/Individuals?

I'm just asking questions and enjoying the conversation. I understand your point, but the world we live in is evolving rapidly.

Anything is possible, but I find these things improbable. It doesn't hurt to put them out for us to ponder, but I think we gun owners have bigger fish to fry.

 

[Denny347]

I agree, and that's why I said a person who has proven they are to dangerous to be in society needs removed from society permanently.

Indiana has Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute. There is a list of serious violent felonies that qualify. Armed Robbery is one. So they do their 3-5 years and are released. You advise either restore their gun rights or lock them up for life?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Indiana has Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute. There is a list of serious violent felonies that qualify. Armed Robbery is one. So they do their 3-5 years and are released. You advise either restore their gun rights or lock them up for life?

I can't speak for DadSmith, but that's my view. The fact that we have a Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute tells me that they aren't going to obey the law. If they aren't going to obey the law, then saying they can't have guns is moot. Don't remove the guns from them. Remove them from society.

 

[BJHay]

Young man is in a fight, knocks someone out, and is convicted of felony battery. He serves whatever sentence he is given.

You think that person should never again have the right to have a gun to defend himself and family?

Conviction for a violent felony is a serious matter and recidivism rates are sky high.

I'm in favor of a review process that might look at the seriousness of the offense, if it was a one-time conviction, time elapsed since the conviction and any other mitigating circumstances. If the person is not likely to reoffend then restoration of rights would be a good idea.

I don't know much about it but there is currently an expungement processes that can restore gun rights to convicted felons. Perhaps something like that is is appropriate.

My point is that a violent felon should not have access to firearms. How to filter out those that will commit future violence against from that had a one-time incident is the tricky part.

 

[KLB]

My point is that a violent felon should not have access to firearms. How to filter out those that will commit future violence against from that had a one-time incident is the tricky part.

How do you propose to keep them from them? Making it illegal has done little to nothing

 

[BJHay]

Indiana has Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute. There is a list of serious violent felonies that qualify. Armed Robbery is one. So they do their 3-5 years and are released. You advise either restore their gun rights or lock them up for life?

I can't speak for DadSmith, but that's my view. The fact that we have a Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute tells me that they aren't going to obey the law. If they aren't going to obey the law, then saying they can't have guns is moot. Don't remove the guns from them. Remove them from society.

I don't think it's moot. If we agree the violent felon shouldn't have a firearm then making it illegal does service a purpose.
Sure, he may carry one anyway but if he's caught he can be locked up right then before he injuries someone else.

 

[churchmouse]

We have far too many overlapping laws.
Far too many.

 

[DadSmith]

Indiana has Serious Violent Felon in possession of a firearm statute. There is a list of serious violent felonies that qualify. Armed Robbery is one. So they do their 3-5 years and are released. You advise either restore their gun rights or lock them up for life?

If they are a serious threat to the peace, and safety of the citizens of Indiana they need to be done away with permanently. If they have a felony such as in possession of drugs, or they hauled illegal aliens to the grocery store and were caught those non violent felonies they should be restored their rights when time is served.

Why would Indiana release a person that is a serious threat to the public in the first place?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I don't think it's moot. If we agree the violent felon shouldn't have a firearm then making it illegal does service a purpose.
Sure, he may carry one anyway but if he's caught he can be locked up right then before he injuries someone else.

And then what? As Denny said, in 3-5 years (unless he's in Marion County, then more or like 3-5 days or 3-5 hours) he's right back out to continue ignoring the laws again.

 

[Kurr]

This whole mass shooting thing is getting ridiculous with the amount and frequency that it is occurring. So I am not gonna feel bad spit-balling ridiculous ideas.

As it is now, I do believe if you have served your time all rights restored. Perhaps if our prisons were not filled with mandatory minimum sentences for non violent drug crimes (drug war is another exercise in futility) we would have resources to make the violent offenders serve their full sentences. Not kill someone get 7 yrs and out in 3.5 less time than it takes to get a degree.

Instead of trying to limit and ban the firearms, what if we mandated them? Say when you start working the first 500.00 in income tax you pay is allocated to a PDP (Personal Defense Pistol) and the next 1500.00 you would pay in goes to training and competency classes.

Most violent felons are essentially predators, I assume, not the mentally unstable that get the headlines in these GFZ Shootings. So what if they knew anywhere they went 6/10 people are probably armed, and if they tried to be violent again they are removed from society by their victims?

We will never be able to keep firearms and or weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. They cant do it in a maximum security prison, it will never happen in open society.

 

[HoughMade]

Recently in the gun control topic threads, there has been some conversation about "felons", with a variety of opinions from "if they've done their time, full rights restored" to "Lock em up and throw away the key". I wanted to start a thread and let others pitch in with examples and conversation to demonstrate just how easy it is to become a dreaded "felon" now days. We assume to become a felon you have to do something pretty heinous, which is not always the case.

Lets begin:

You find some Jazz Cabbage (marijuana) in your kids room and flush it down the toilet. Obstruction of Justice and tampering with evidence

You tell your boss your sick to get the day off. Violation of the honest services fraud act. The “honest services” statute criminalizes “a scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right of honest services.” This criminalized an employee lying to his employer, and as Justice Scalia pointed out, “would seemingly cover a salaried employee’s phoning in sick to go to a ball game.” Prosecutors were able to get those convicted up to five years in federal prison, a $250,000 fine, or both.

You throw away any piece of mail not addressed to you. “Obstruction of Correspondence.”

You are out looking for antler sheds and mushroom and find a cool feather that you pick up to keep or show someone. Turns out it was from any bird listed in the The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. There's over 1000 species listed. You're now a felon.

Make an error on your taxes and sign the form. Tax Evasion.

I know someone who is... short. They noticed an SUV riding their bumper, after a bit sped up to get em off their butt, and then realized they were so close they couldn't see the lights on the unmarked vehicle. Almost went to jail for Evading/resisting. (OK that's a Class A Misdemeanor but there's always aggravating circumstances that could be added and raise it to a felony.)

I'm sure there is a million more but that's enough to get the conversation started.

I don't know who originally wrote that list, and if it's you, I'm sorry, but pretty much nothing you listed would, or could, result in a felony conviction.

If you have been declared a felon under one of these, I'd be glad to read the court file and admit my mistake.

 

[BJHay]

How do you propose to keep them from them? Making it illegal has done little to nothing

Anybody that wants a gun can get one. We all know guns can't be kept from criminals.

I posted my list of those that 'should' not have access. What it means is that if someone has a good idea to reduce access by violent criminals without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens I'm all ears.

For example, I don't have a problem with making it illegal for a violent felon to posses a firearm. It may do nothing to stop them from carrying but it gives cops one more opportunity to lock them up before they commit their next crime.

 

[actaeon277]

This whole mass shooting thing is getting ridiculous with the amount and frequency that it is occurring. So I am not gonna feel bad spit-balling ridiculous ideas.

As it is now, I do believe if you have served your time all rights restored. Perhaps if our prisons were not filled with mandatory minimum sentences for non violent drug crimes (drug war is another exercise in futility) we would have resources to make the violent offenders serve their full sentences. Not kill someone get 7 yrs and out in 3.5 less time than it takes to get a degree.

Instead of trying to limit and ban the firearms, what if we mandated them? Say when you start working the first 500.00 in income tax you pay is allocated to a PDP (Personal Defense Pistol) and the next 1500.00 you would pay in goes to training and competency classes.

Most violent felons are essentially predators, I assume, not the mentally unstable that get the headlines in these GFZ Shootings. So what if they knew anywhere they went 6/10 people are probably armed, and if they tried to be violent again they are removed from society by their victims?

We will never be able to keep firearms and or weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. They cant do it in a maximum security prison, it will never happen in open society.

Blame the media for beating the drums.
Not for informing, that's what they're supposed to do.
But for fanning the flames.

 

[actaeon277]

Am I a felon.

Let me see...


I'm a picker, I'm a grinner
I'm a lover, and I'm a sinner
I play my music in the sun
I'm a joker, I'm a smoker
I'm a midnight toker
I get my lovin' on the run

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm sure there is a million more but that's enough to get the conversation started.

And most of them are wrong. And ignore the fact that they'd have to be detected, prosecuted, convicted on, and no diversion given.

You think a jury is going to support a conviction on any of those scenarios? No, of course not. That list is hand wringing just to have something to hand wring about.