AR15 Red Dot advice

[MikeDVB]

No offense to anyone that has an AR for the sole purpose of home defense... but all the points you all are making either apply to the battlefield or a defensive situation.

30 Round magazine capacity + quality ammo = way better for defense than a handgun and I'm not a fan of shotguns. I donno, I just rather grab the rifle than a handgun and a few extra magazines.

I also plan on building a short barreled rifle with a suppressor that will take over as home defense once I have my tax stamps in - will still be loud but not permanent-damage loud and will still have all of the other benefits of a properly outfitted home defense rifle.

I like to think I'd grab ear protection that's on my night stand if there's an intruder but in reality the one time I've had to grab the gun from the night stand I neglected the hearing protection as defending my son's life in the other room was a little more urgent to me than defending my own hearing.

IMO, unless you live on a freaking farm, why the heck would you use a high powered rifle for home defense?

Only farms have enough land around them to justify a rifle in your opinion? At what point should one decide to use a rifle over a handgun or a handgun over a rifle? When you hit 5 acres? 10? 100?

I have a novel idea - you use what you feel is best, and I'll use what I feel is best.

Horrible decision in my book. Collateral damage is much higher.
A decent full sized handgun with a blinding 100+ lumen light or a pistol grip shotty with some 00 buck will be much better.

Any reason a blinding 100+ lumen light and a rifle can't be just as effective? We're not talking about loading up armor-piercing 5.56 ammunition for home defense. Obviously if one chooses to use a rifle for home defense they should choose an appropriate defensive round just as you would do with a handgun.

If you buy a $300+ sight battery life is at the bottom of my list. Clarity, zero hold, and features are what appeal to me.

What if I told you that on a $300+ sight not only do you get clarity, zero hold, but also good battery life to go along with it as well as whatever features said optic has to offer? Why does one have to sacrifice one for another?

As far as features - it just depends on which sight you choose to get as to which features you'll have. All of the Aimpoints, for example, have excellent battery life and you really couldn't go wrong with any of them.

 

[SpaldingPM]

Do some research please.

Like I plainly and boldly stated.. "IMO." I've done much research and its my personal preference. To each their own.

 

[MikeDVB]

Like I plainly and boldly stated.. "IMO." I've done much research and its my personal preference. To each their own.

Indeed - we're all permitted an opinion and we're even allowed opinions that differ!

EXCITING STUFF!!!!!!

 

[SpaldingPM]

Indeed - we're all permitted an opinion and we're even allowed opinions that differ!

EXCITING STUFF!!!!!!

Opinions are cool things. >

Hahah

 

[loony1]

Bah, I'm going to say the inverse of all these guys and say EOTech. I pick up the reticule much quicker than the red dot, it's smaller without loosing intensity so covers less target at distance. For some reason, my eyes do better with the smaller brighter dot than the Aimpoint.

This is true with me also since Lasik surgery, EOTech on all my rifles.

 

[MikeDVB]

How big is the dot on the EOTech? I know on the Aimpoint I ordered it's 2 MOA but supposedly [haven't gotten it yet to test] if you turn down the brightness the dot appears to get smaller.

 

[Tanfodude]

No battery needed, lightweight, fast sight acquisition (1.5x), tritium illumination for low light.

 

[MikeDVB]

The Trijicon ACOG is nice, I'll give you that .

 

[Tanfodude]

The Trijicon ACOG is nice, I'll give you that .

Thanks. It's for my SBR when I have the papers.

Using this on my current AR, this pic doesn't have the RMR though which I already installed.

 

[MikeDVB]

It's for my SBR when I have the papers.

I was looking at the ACOG/RMR Combo - probably 4x on the ACOG and then the RMR for close-combat.

Probably way overkill, but it sure would be nice to have . That said, I'm probably going to get a 3x magnifier to go behind my Aimpoint on a pivot for range time/fun time. Not sure the 3x would be practical in any sort of home-defense situation - but until I've tried it I'm just speculating.

 

[tradertator]

How big is the dot on the EOTech? I know on the Aimpoint I ordered it's 2 MOA but supposedly [haven't gotten it yet to test] if you turn down the brightness the dot appears to get smaller.

The Eotech dot is 1 MOA. The Aimpoint's are at least 2 MOA, and appear bigger for most peoples eyes as you turn up the brightness

To the OP, buy whichever you like best. Both are battle proven, and will serve you nicely. Every internet armchair commando is going to tell you to buy what they have, because it's simply the best. I have Aimpoints, Eotechs, and a slew of other optics. I'm sure some guys are going to get their panties in a knot because I disagree with them, but here is my . For my eyes, the Eotech works better.
-Aimpoints and all other red dot sights look a bit fuzzy and egg shaped for me. The Eotech is clear and crisp.
-Holographic sights are truly paralax free. Red dots aren't.
-When you run an Eotech with a magnifier, the dot stays the same size (1MOA). When you run a red dot with a magnifier, the dot is magnified at the same level the magnifier is rated at. Meaning if your Aimpoint is 2MOA, and your running a 3X magnifier, your dot just grew to 6MOA. If it's 4MOA with a 3X, you just jumped up 12MOA.
-I'm not a fan of the factory Aimpoint mount, and always opt for the Larue offering which adds at least another $100.
-The battery life is undoubtedly better in my T1, but my EXPS's run time is excellent. Plus it uses the same 123 battery as everything else I run, not some weird ass medical battery. I poke 2 123's in the insert of my MIAD grip, and I'm good to go.
-As far as leaving the optic on, I leave my iron sights up when not in use. When its go time, it takes me a second to turn the optic on. Even if the power was left on with my Aimpoint, I would still probably adjust the brightness setting according to light conditions in my enviorment.
-The biggest advantage to the Aimpoint in my opinion is durability, although it's never been an issue on the half dozen or so Eotech's I've owned. If you plan on freezing it solid, shooting it with a 12gauge, blowing it up, or any of the other wild things that have been done in Aimpoint torture test, definitely go with the Aimpoint.
There are pro's / con's to everything in life. Optics are no different. Go out, and get your hands on both before buying something.

 

[rvb]

-When you run an Eotech with a magnifier, the dot stays the same size (1MOA). When you run a red dot with a magnifier, the dot is magnified at the same level the magnifier is rated at. Meaning if your Aimpoint is 2MOA, and your running a 3X magnifier, your dot just grew to 6MOA. If it's 4MOA with a 3X, you just jumped up 12MOA.

Not sure how the physics works out on that statement...

With both sighting systems, assuming a magnifier behind the sight, the magnification is going to work the same way. The dots will "appear" larger, but they will be the same size relative to the target.

A 2MOA dot in an aimpoint will be a 2MOA dot after the magnifier. The dot AND the target will be magnified, so in relation they will stay the same.

Same with the EOTech. A 1MOA dot in an EOTwill be a 1MOA dot after the magnifier.

(I've heard it discussed that the EOT dot doesn't "seem" to grow much through a magnifier, that it's actually smaller than that and what you see is more "bloom" than dot. So it may look < 1moa on target once magnified... but I've not tried one through a magnifier for more than a second to test/measure).

 

[rvb]

-As far as leaving the optic on, I leave my iron sights up when not in use. When its go time, it takes me a second to turn the optic on.

Back-up irons are a great idea regardless, but a must w/ an EOTech. I ran an EOT on a 3-gun rifle for a while. Irons saved my butt at least once when I came on target under the clock and realized the dot had automattically timed off. Having fixed irons so I could just start shooting saved what could have been a disaster.... I always think of that when thinking about a defensive use. [Currently, my "go to" AR is just irons anyway].

My EOT is an N-cell (all that was available as the WOT was spinning up). I only shoot the gun it's on every couple months, but EVERY TIME I pull it out of the safe the dot is blinking telling me the battery is dying. I've spent more on batteries for that sight than the cost difference to go to an Aimpoint (now days with the PRO, an Aimpoit is even cheaper than an EOT).

That said, I still like the sight picture of the EOT better. Not just the reticle, but the lack of "tube." It seems more like there is just a dot floating in front of me vs seeming like I'm looking through a scope... The EOT feels more like the C-more on my uspsa open gun.

-rvb

 

[Thumbs]

I prefer the EO Tech over the Aimpoint myself. I do like the setup with the flip-side 3x magnifier.

Trijicon also makes the Reflex and RMR which could be options as well. I've always liked Trijicon products. I have an ACOG with Docter red dot mounted on top of my M4...very slick, but very pricey.

My advice would be to try and put your hands on all these products and see for yourself which you really prefer. Because after all, if it's what you like best, no one else's opinion really matters.

Good luck.

 

[esrice]

Aimpoint.

 

[Hop]

I've looked through a Trijicon SRS and didn't notice the "astigmatic dot effect". Pretty nice optic but a bit pricey. 3+ year battery life on the brightest setting in total darkness but uses solar cells outside.

 

[MikeDVB]

Contacted LaRue Tactical to inquire about my optic order. They expect the optic to ship out today woot woot.

 

[usp45]

sorry, meant to quote traderator......

"
Originally Posted by tradertator
-When you run an Eotech with a magnifier, the dot stays the same size (1MOA). When you run a red dot with a magnifier, the dot is magnified at the same level the magnifier is rated at. Meaning if your Aimpoint is 2MOA, and your running a 3X magnifier, your dot just grew to 6MOA. If it's 4MOA with a 3X, you just jumped up 12MOA."

Back up and look at the pic i posted of a 552 and a eotech g33.
that 1MOA dot is just as tiny and a whole lot more clear. it did NOT get larger at all, that much is clear.
I was expecting something like what you said "magnification would make it a 3 MOA " but it made the reticle extremely sharp, sure the circle was bigger but that dot was still itty bitty (scientific words).

Either way, my $$ was well spent on a Eotech 552 and the G33 STS.

 

[echoagain]

FWIW, There are some good youtube videos on this subject. 'nutnfancy' has a good Eotech vs Aimpoint video, and James Yeager has a good video on AR sites as well. It's informative, regardless of whether you agree with their opinions.