AR Scope recommendations

[PTinbound]

I recently got my first AR, a 16" carbine. I'm just not used to the whole peep sight thing, and I took it out and got terrible groups at 50 yards. Now I now this thing isn't a sniper rifle or anything, but surely it is capable of 2 MOA or better with average brass cased ammo. I know I'm not going to hit golf balls at 1000 yards, but I'd like to hit them at 50, hit a large pie plate at 200, and a man sized target at 300. I'd like to think the rifle is capable of that even if my skill isn't. I want the scope to be semi-tactical if possible, or at least durable for the long haul. Price is an issue, so I don't want cheap junk but I do want good value for the money. In other words, I refuse to buy a scope from Wal Mart, but I can't afford a $1000 Leupold either. I saw Cabela's has a Nikon P-223 for $200. Is that a good scope and a good value? I'd like to keep it between $150-300. I know it won't buy much, but will it buy something halfway decent?

 

[iChokePeople]

Hmm... Well, ok, i'll be the one: If you're shooting terrible groups at 50 yards, it's not because you don't have a scope. Theoretically, it could be because your sights are loose and moving around... but most likely it's something a scope won't fix.

But training will.

Unless your sights are wiggling or your gun just isn't shooting well, it's you. Get help from a qualified helper, improve your marksmanship. Go to an Appleseed. THEN worry about a scope.

YMMV.

 

[EvilElmo]

Nikon makes good glass for the money. You also won't go wrong with anything from Vortex. Given what you're looking to achieve out of your rifle a 1-4x should do the job nicely.

If you're willing to save/spend a bit more I highly recommend the Vortex PST 1-4x. Just got one myself and it is sweet!

 

[billmyn]

what type of AR did you pick up , not a bushmaster carbon 15 is it . have a friend that bought one and thats about what it was shooting , it had a red dot at 50yds and american eagle ammo . my hand loads were only about 1.5'' @ 50 as well . would have never beleived that a factory gun could be so terrible

 

[chuddly]

That is a pretty terrible group....I would SERIOUSLY look at the gun for a flaw unless you KNOW your not a good shot. If the latter is the case then have a friend who is a decent shot shoot the gun to see how he does. With my AR right out of the box i was shooting clay pigeons at 150yards with just iron sights just to give you an idea of the accuracy. And my 2 friends did the same thing with my gun first time they picked it up also so the gun is good and any misses are all on my fault.

 

[indyjoe]

Before my first Appleseed, if someone told me that with iron sights I could shoot inside 1" at 25 meters (82 feet), I would have not believed them. Learning to shoot irons will only help you shoot a scope.

I had sight problems with my first AR outing for testing my AR builds. So one string, I didn't really use the sights. Just returned to my natural point of aim for each shot. I would up with all rounds touching at 25m. If you don't understand natural point of aim, then you are using optics to force the shot, rather than being in the correct position to just fire the shot. This will increase the grouping.

 

[Hookeye]

I put a 2-7X on my CAR, pretty decent yote rig for 200 yds and in. After trigger job it's doing .75" at 100 yds off a bag with 55gr V max.

 

[jackadew]

Here's another example of where you should buy a QUALITY SCOPE WITH A STUPID PROOF LIFETIME WARRANTY. If not what will you have? 1. A GUN WITH UNKNOWN ACCURACY. 2. A SHOOTER WITH UNKNOWN MARKSMANSHIP SKILLS. 3. A SCOPE WITH UNKNOWN QUALITY. Buy once, cry once, and atleast you will take one problem out of the equation.

 

[Kernal1984]

200 and under red dot
I'm not a great shot and don't have any formal training but i can keep all my rounds inside a pie pan at 200yds with my red dot from a standing position if i take my time

more than 200 i like some magnification
I had a cheap tru-glo target/varmint scope on the same gun(RRA 16" carbine R-4 barrel)and could shoot inch and a quarter groups from a prone position at 200yds.

My gun loves Remington UMC 45gr hollow points

 

[42769vette]

what do you think about

Vortex Optics - Diamondback 1.75-5x32 Dead-Hold BDC
my price is 179

its not tactical at all, but its plenty durable and will give you enough magnification to shoot the ranges your talking about but it will also give you a good low end for close up fast accusition shooting.

the pst 1-4 capped is my first recomendation but its out of your price range at 490.

 

[indyjoe]

Vortex Optics - Diamondback 1.75-5x32 Dead-Hold BDC
my price is 179

its not tactical at all, but its plenty durable and will give you enough magnification to shoot the ranges your talking about but it will also give you a good low end for close up fast accusition shooting.

the pst 1-4 capped is my first recomendation but its out of your price range at 490.

Do the reticules zoom with the scope on something like that? That seems to be the only way that it would stay a constant MOA offset for holdover or windage holds.

 

[RetroWally]

I'm actually glad you posted this blog because I was just wondering the same thing for the past few days. After some research I found that it really depends on what you would like to do ultimately and your prefence. I do range and hunting with mine, or will after setting it up. But after this research and some reviews I went to Walmart (go ahead and laugh) and bought a Center Point 4x16 40mm for $70. When I got home I held it up against the rifle, which is a Stag Model 3 AR, it looked huge (like 14.5" long)! So before opening it I researched a lot more and found that it was't really long at all for the type of scope it was, and actually was about average all around. I then opened it and put it on the rifle and I looks bad ass actually! The part that really matters is that when I looked through it I had no complaints what so ever. Now granted this was inside and at night so it may change when I take it outside in the day light and zoom in some. So I guess what I'm saying is you should check it out, cause for the money it's totally worth it and even more so on a budget. I will post some pics of it later tonight hopefully when I get home so just look out for it and you can check it out, for now you can just google it to read up. I hope this has helped ya out some

 

[Seaweed02]

A good Leupold won't cost you $1000

I recently got my first AR, a 16" carbine. I'm just not used to the whole peep sight thing, and I took it out and got terrible groups at 50 yards. Now I now this thing isn't a sniper rifle or anything, but surely it is capable of 2 MOA or better with average brass cased ammo. I know I'm not going to hit golf balls at 1000 yards, but I'd like to hit them at 50, hit a large pie plate at 200, and a man sized target at 300. I'd like to think the rifle is capable of that even if my skill isn't. I want the scope to be semi-tactical if possible, or at least durable for the long haul. Price is an issue, so I don't want cheap junk but I do want good value for the money. In other words, I refuse to buy a scope from Wal Mart, but I can't afford a $1000 Leupold either. I saw Cabela's has a Nikon P-223 for $200. Is that a good scope and a good value? I'd like to keep it between $150-300. I know it won't buy much, but will it buy something halfway decent?

I bought a Leupold scope for my AR. It is called the AR 6-18x40mm model and it is made for the AR specifically. So the top turret comes with a bullet compensator dial designed for the 5.56/223 round. You don't have to fool with MOA just dial in your range on the turret. Not a BDC reticle, I mean the turret itself. I paid $525 for mine brand new, and there are less powerfull AR scopes from the same Leupold AR line up that will be cheaper. They will be great scopes.

 

[Slow Hand]

I've become a big fan of low power variables for my AR's. My eyes are not very good and I like a little magnification for distance. I have 1.5-5x scopes on my two AR's right now, one a .223 and the other a .300blk. I also think a low power variable is great for a slug gun, muzzle loader, or a pistol caliber deer rifle.

 

[42769vette]

Do the reticules zoom with the scope on something like that? That seems to be the only way that it would stay a constant MOA offset for holdover or windage holds.

what you are refering to is called ffp (front focal plane) i do carry scopes that have that feature but the above is not one of them.

but you are correct the big advantage to a tactical/hunting style shooter is that the reticle grows allowing for measurements (moa or mils) to be taken on any power setting.

the disadvantage is to bench rest style shooters. they like 1/8ths moa dots and a ffp reticle grows and gets bigger on higher power settings wich they hate.

personally all my scopes are ffp except my low zoom scopes (like 1-4 1.75-5 etc) the reason i dont like ffp on a low power scope is the reticle also gets smallier on lower zooms just like it gets biggier on higher zooms. on most all low power scopes the measurements are correct on the highest power setting. if i have a 1-4 scope and im shooting long enough range that im holding over i figure i should be on 4x anyways. the excepting to that rule is on calibers like the 300blk and 9mm ar's.

watch this any you will understand better than i can explain what happens and sorry for getting so windy in my reply

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XgugJSqpoE&feature=relmfu[/ame]

 

[indyjoe]

Great reply. I had not heard of front focal plane, but have often through that mil-dot or similar estimators are pretty useless if they don't move with zoom.

 

[42769vette]

Great reply. I had not heard of front focal plane, but have often through that mil-dot or similar estimators are pretty useless if they don't move with zoom.

on a sfp scope the measurements can still be taken, it just requires more math.

hypothetically on a 6-24 mildot scope that is correct on 24x.

if you are reading 1 mil

on 24x it is actually 1 mil
on 12x it is actually 2 mils
on 8x it is actually 3 mils
on 6x it is actually 4 mils.

the problem with taking measurements on any power setting besides the top and bottom is its very easy to be on 12.1 instid of 12 throwing the math off.

on the pst line the scope actually has detents for the exact numbers that the math can easily be done on so the zoom ring kind of falls into the 12x spot not the 12.1 or 11.9. it also says "x3" on the back side of the 8x zoom ring number to tell you how to do the math

 

[RetroWally]

I'm actually glad you posted this blog because I was just wondering the same thing for the past few days. After some research I found that it really depends on what you would like to do ultimately and your prefence. I do range and hunting with mine, or will after setting it up. But after this research and some reviews I went to Walmart (go ahead and laugh) and bought a Center Point 4x16 40mm for $70. When I got home I held it up against the rifle, which is a Stag Model 3 AR, it looked huge (like 14.5" long)! So before opening it I researched a lot more and found that it was't really long at all for the type of scope it was, and actually was about average all around. I then opened it and put it on the rifle and I looks bad ass actually! The part that really matters is that when I looked through it I had no complaints what so ever. Now granted this was inside and at night so it may change when I take it outside in the day light and zoom in some. So I guess what I'm saying is you should check it out, cause for the money it's totally worth it and even more so on a budget. I will post some pics of it later tonight hopefully when I get home so just look out for it and you can check it out, for now you can just google it to read up. I hope this has helped ya out some

Here's a pic of my work in progress and what i just added.

 

[42769vette]

. I then opened it and put it on the rifle and I looks bad ass actually!

everyones needs are diffrent, to me looks are the asolute last thing that matters. i think where you will find your centerpoint lacking is function. when you make a 1/4moa click it wont actually more your poi 1/4moa.

another thing i think you will find it lacking in is clarity outside on max power. at gun shows i see folks selling "sniper optics". and they look great INSIDE.

ive never heard a realibable sorce give a good review of centerpoint. i hope you have a better experiance with them. you also have to keep inmind alot of folks who write reviews may never have looked threw a scope before the centerpoint so they have nothing to compare it to

 

[netsecurity]

I recently got my first AR, a 16" carbine. I'm just not used to the whole peep sight thing, and I took it out and got terrible groups at 50 yards. Now I now this thing isn't a sniper rifle or anything, but surely it is capable of 2 MOA or better with average brass cased ammo. I know I'm not going to hit golf balls at 1000 yards, but I'd like to hit them at 50, hit a large pie plate at 200, and a man sized target at 300. I'd like to think the rifle is capable of that even if my skill isn't. I want the scope to be semi-tactical if possible, or at least durable for the long haul. Price is an issue, so I don't want cheap junk but I do want good value for the money. In other words, I refuse to buy a scope from Wal Mart, but I can't afford a $1000 Leupold either. I saw Cabela's has a Nikon P-223 for $200. Is that a good scope and a good value? I'd like to keep it between $150-300. I know it won't buy much, but will it buy something halfway decent?

You were using the small aperture, right? In combat the large aperture is used for CQB, but for target shooting you should always use the small aperture. Still a scope is much more accurate.

To me, a tradition scope ruins the AR-15 as a battle rifle. CQB is not really possible with magnification. I wish their were more 1-4x red dots available at a reasonable price.

So for now I like Aimpoint by far the best out to 100yds. If I'm shooting further I just use a FTS magnifier (and it is grrreat for spotting). The magnifier magnifies the target and the dot, so it doesn't make the dot appear any bigger on the target than it is without magnification. Still the 2 moa dot on a CompM4 seems perfect, whereas 4 moa seems slightly bigger than necessary. 4 moa is really fine though, I should say I just like 2moa better.

I'd say the Vortex Strikefire meets all your requirements, since you don't really need magnification to hit man size at 300yds. Plus you can add a magnifier. Aimpoint costs 3-4x as much, but it has its tactical advantages, and sturdy construction. Most people start out with something like a Vortex (or much worse), and then upgrade to Aimpoint or Eotech after saving some money. But you can get a used Eotech for around $300 if that floats yer boat.