Anyone else choosing to not have kids?

[CountryBoy19]

Whether or not government schools have any benefit on property values is debatable

Debate all you want, but in some areas it is absolutely true... very easily seen where I grew up. The school I went to was a public school, Indiana 4-Star School (highest ranking) and property values were very much higher in that district. As a matter of fact, it was very common for people from out of district, even out of the county completely to buy a house while their kids were school age just so they could go to school there, and then sell the house the day their last one graduated.

Bad schools turn out college graduates too. And it's a logical fallacy to imply that anything worthwhile in this world is the result of an education from a government school.

I don't believe that is what he was trying to say. I believe the point he was making was that just as many, or even more of worthwhile inventions likely came from people that went through public schools simply because there are a LOT more products of public education than private... I'm sure a very sizable portion of those products/inventions etc came from people that otherwise wouldn't have gotten an education if there wasn't a public school. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I would be where I am today if it wasn't for a top-quality public education. I like to think I'm turning out stuff that is helping "society" in tremendous ways, whether it's a direct benefit that they see and notice, or an indirect benefit that never even crosses their mind is irrelevant to the fact that it is a benefit.

Thankfully, indoctrination doesn't hold really well for either of the two groups you so ignorantly stereotype. Kids will find their own ways and have their own thoughts, beliefs and ideals. Often enough they are markedly different, and sometime even better than the ones with which they were raised.

Interesting observation but I'll just agree to disagree before you get your knickers in more of a wad than they already are ....

 

[sadclownwp]

Debate all you want, but in some areas it is absolutely true... very easily seen where I grew up. The school I went to was a public school, Indiana 4-Star School (highest ranking) and property values were very much higher in that district. As a matter of fact, it was very common for people from out of district, even out of the county completely to buy a house while their kids were school age just so they could go to school there, and then sell the house the day their last one graduated.

I don't believe that is what he was trying to say. I believe the point he was making was that just as many, or even more of worthwhile inventions likely came from people that went through public schools simply because there are a LOT more products of public education than private... I'm sure a very sizable portion of those products/inventions etc came from people that otherwise wouldn't have gotten an education if there wasn't a public school. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I would be where I am today if it wasn't for a top-quality public education. I like to think I'm turning out stuff that is helping "society" in tremendous ways, whether it's a direct benefit that they see and notice, or an indirect benefit that never even crosses their mind is irrelevant to the fact that it is a benefit.


Interesting observation but I'll just agree to disagree before you get your knickers in more of a wad than they already are ....

Now just imagine the even better stuff that would be out there if everyone had a private school education where you actually have to perform well to continue to attend.

 

[melensdad]

For whatever it is worth, the Indiana State Constitution requires the state to provide a free edumacatun for all the chillren. Consequently we are all on the hook for the cost of education. We can debate lots of points, but unless you folks can amend the State Constitution then you are not going to get out of the tax payments. Somehow, some way, taxes will pay for public education in Indiana.

Me, I paid my taxes to my skuul district, then I sent my daughter to private schools so she could actually get a good education.

 

[slowG]

I'm sure others have mentioned this... Without having read the entire thread....

Without my child I have nothing.

financial freedom, a house a car , freedom to do whatever does not amount to the enjoyment I get from one minute with my son.

just my .02

 

[1775usmarine]

My wife had two miscarriages. One at 13 weeks, one at 16. Christmas Eve three years ago was the first one. My wife has some cysts on her ovaries. The Dr's believe surgery may be able to fix the issue, but no guarantees. There is some serious potential for unintended damage and consequences of the procedure though.

It's unimaginable to me that you could classify my wife and I's decisions as selfish from two posts on an internet forum.

Obliviously you did want kids but medical issues prevented that.

 

[sadclownwp]

For whatever it is worth, the Indiana State Constitution requires the state to provide a free edumacatun for all the chillren. Consequently we are all on the hook for the cost of education. We can debate lots of points, but unless you folks can amend the State Constitution then you are not going to get out of the tax payments. Somehow, some way, taxes will pay for public education in Indiana.

Me, I paid my taxes to my skuul district, then I sent my daughter to private schools so she could actually get a good education.

The state constitution has nothing to do with it. I agree, we should give all children a free education, just at the expense of the parents of said children. I figure if we take away the tax breaks, and say charge parents an extra 10% in tax for each child they have, that should cover the cost of there kids going to school. Just stop taking the payments out of the pockets of those who do not own your kids. It is not like I am saying extra taxes for life, just till your kids graduate. I'll even amend to the point of the tax breaks should depend on the performance of the child in the school. They get a 4.0, perhaps the parents deserve a little tax break, not much, just a little. Maybe that would also fix the family dynamic problems of today, and really give the kids some incentive to do well.

 

[1775usmarine]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this logic. I'm sorry you can't have kids. It's tragic that you want to be loving parents and are unable to, but calling someone selfish for being able to have something you can't, but choose not to just makes you look bitter and jealous. It doesn't make them look selfish.

There are plenty of babies and kids that need homes. Should I call you selfish for wanting your own and not one of the ones in need?

We haven't given up on having kids, and if we come to the end where we can't have kids we would possibly consider adopting. Obviously you haven't gone through what my wife and I have been going through and when someone says we don't want kids its an emotional set back. If the OP would of said we don't want kids due to medical reasons then I wouldn't have to assume anything being this is the internet and all.

 

[88GT]

I believe you meant to say education SHOULD BE a personal responsibility. Your statement as is is incorrect. It is currently a societal responsibilty and I think it should stay that way. I came from the cliche poverty single mom welfare home, if the burden to pay for me and my 2 brothers k-12 education was on my mom alone and tax breaks withheld, it's probable that I'd be a drop-out bum.

So with all due respect, I'm telling you to pound sand.

No. It is still a parental responsibility. Compsory attendance laws put the lie to your claim. You're just trying to justify string something for nothing. Because I too was the daughter of a single mom who was so poor we had cereal for dinner. Without a any assistance from anybody else, I earned or borrowed my way through university and grad school. You have the mentality that the world owes you something whether you earned it or not. Your outcome wasn't dependent on the generosity of your neighbors. That generosity just made it a little easier to achieve.

Debate all you want, but in some areas it is absolutely true... very easily seen where I grew up. The school I went to was a public school, Indiana 4-Star School (highest ranking) and property values were very much higher in that district. As a matter of fact, it was very common for people from out of district, even out of the county completely to buy a house while their kids were school age just so they could go to school there, and then sell the house the day their last one graduated.

And the school district in which I live has some of the lowest property values (outside downtown Indy) despite having a better scho system than other areas. Debatable.

I don't believe that is what he was trying to say. I believe the point he was making was that just as many, or even more of worthwhile inventions likely came from people that went through public schools simply because there are a LOT more products of public education than private... I'm sure a very sizable portion of those products/inventions etc came from people that otherwise wouldn't have gotten an education if there wasn't a public school. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure I would be where I am today if it wasn't for a top-quality public education. I like to think I'm turning out stuff that is helping "society" in tremendous ways, whether it's a direct benefit that they see and notice, or an indirect benefit that never even crosses their mind is irrelevant to the fact that it is a benefit.

He argued that we would be without X if we didn't have government schools. Rationalize it however you want. We don't need them and they are a contradiction to liberty.

Out of arguments so you resort to insults. Classy.

 

[ConcealedCarryCutie]

Im in the same boat, married almost 4 years to my first husband, we both are mid 20s and both really enjoy our careers and our life together. We are best friends and enjoy spending time with each other. We want to have kids eventually i supose, but right now we dont feel like anythings missing. Sure i have mood swings occasionally where i have a longing to carry and raise a child of my own, but im content to wait. If we are ment to have a child sooner rather then later there are greater forces out there then birth control that will make it happen. I know children are a beautiful thing, and a blessing of life changing proportions but that doesnt have to happen because everybody else thinks it should. It should happen when YOU AND YOUR SPOUSE are ready whether its 6 months or 6 years, or 10 years or never

 

[CountryBoy19]

Now just imagine the even better stuff that would be out there if everyone had a private school education where you actually have to perform well to continue to attend.

You're talking about fantasy island here and you know it. The fact of the matter is, NEVER will "everyone have a private school education". You're talking about utopia. Have you actually considered how it would be possible to give everybody a private school education?

And the school district in which I live has some of the lowest property values (outside downtown Indy) despite having a better scho system than other areas. Debatable.

What other factors are involved in your localized property values both in your district and the surrounding districts? Crime rates? Transportation? Industry? It's much harder to nail that stuff down in an urban area like you live. Where I grew up, everything was pretty much the same across the entire area, the largest contributing factor to property values was A) is it tillable acreage and B) what school district is it in... it's very hard to refute the evidence when it is years of repeated data with very few variables, the one constant being the school...

He argued that we would be without X if we didn't have government schools. Rationalize it however you want. We don't need them and they are a contradiction to liberty.

First off, that is NOT what he said, go back and read it again...

Second, did you not comprehend what I just wrote? Let me repeat it in a different manner than before. Just as private schools can turn out productive members of society that add benefit to society, public schools do as well. There will always be the lowest man on the totem pole, whether he is in a public school or private school. Likewise, there will always be the next Einstein, and he could just as easily come from a public school as a private school. The fact of the matter is, that next Einstein may be from an impoverished family that still cares, and is trying their best to raise a productive member of society. If their only option were private school that they had to pay for then our next Einstein will never grow to his potential and we will never know what we will live without. That is what I believe he was implying, nothing more, nothing less.

Politics of public schools aside, they are here to stay for a long time; I'm not even going to get into that discussion with you, we have very opposing points of view. If you think that only a good education can be produced in the home or a private school then you are SEVERELY mistaken...

Out of arguments so you resort to insults. Classy.

Now hold up just a second... what insults are you talking about? What did I say that could possibly even be construed as an insult?

 

[BE Mike]

And your argument presupposes that no government schools = no education. First problem.

Government education is not on the same level as a public good/service such a s fire/police. Second problem.

If you wish to contribute to the financial responsibilities of other people, have at it. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you have any right to coerce your fellow citizens to do so by using the government to confiscate their property.

You don't see the overall benefit of a free public education. The fact of the matter is it levels the playing field, giving the rich and poor kids equal opportunity. The people who first started this country didn't want an aristocratic system that was so prevalent in Europe. I would have never received an education, if it hadn't been for tax supported public schools and there are a lot of kids out there, through no fault of their own, who would never be able to get a fair chance at a decent life without it.

Your attempt at logic eludes me or maybe it is just that you focus on your individual concerns and cannot see the big picture. The comparison I made is that tax supported public education is an overall benefit to our society just like fire departments, street departments and police, etc. An educated population is a benefit to our society. One doesn't have to look very far (Mexico) to see the oppression and vast vacuum that exists between rich and poor; much of it due to an uneducated populace. On the border, the wealthier Mexicans have paid tuition to American public and private schools to educate their kids. The poor kids (the majority) get little education.

All that being said, our public schools need to be improved to provide a better education to our children. Our bloated governments need trimming and slashing. Taxpayers are being squeezed and squeezed hard because too many people are taking too many "entitlements". Certainly, the solution to many of these problems in our society is not to eliminate public funding from our schools so that kids don't have a chance at being contributing members of society.

My disclaimer is that I have no children attending public school and I am not an educator, nor do I have any family members involved in the public school system.

 

[sadclownwp]

You're talking about fantasy island here and you know it. The fact of the matter is, NEVER will "everyone have a private school education". You're talking about utopia. Have you actually considered how it would be possible to give everybody a private school education?

Oh CountryBoy19, allow me to put school you on how it could be possible to get everybody into a private school. Through the miracle of technology I present you with Laurel Springs School Accredited Private Online School

 

[Snapdragon]

Also got him.

I think just labeling people as selfish for deciding one way or another is a rather absurd notion. Like sadclown says, sometimes you find a partner in life who doesn't want kids. That's a great match. My wife and I didn't want kids when we meet. 5 years later, we did, and felt like we had the means to bring them into a happy home and life. It enriched us, but I don't think we were selfish for not wanting them before that.

However, if we didn't have the means to take care of children, but decided to anyway, that would have been selfish and unfair to both our children and to people forced to foot the bills.

We also recently experienced a miscarriage, so I can empathize with folks who have lost pregnancies or had trouble conceiving. A wanted pregnancy lost, or a wanted pregnancy unfulfilled, is truly heartbreaking.

So I'm rambling a bit to say....having kids and being responsible for them is awesome. If you can't afford it, maybe consider getting finances in order first. If you don't want kids, don't have them; it would be unfair to bring a child into that. For me, fatherhood is my biggest reward, but YMMV, and it's not my place to say others should or shouldn't have kids.

To each his/her own.

I'm sorry, Bradmedic. I remember you telling us your wife was expecting, and I've been meaning to ask how she was doing.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Oh CountryBoy19, allow me to put school you on how it could be possible to get everybody into a private school. Through the miracle of technology I present you with Laurel Springs School Accredited Private Online School

Trust me, you're not "schooling" anyone with your link ... let me refer you to Laurel Springs K-8 Tuition Options
$2300 per/yr tuition for k-5 and it gets more expensive after that. That's for an online school. What are some other items that a student would need to be a part of that school? It's an online school, which implies an internet connection, broadband to be specific. Believe it or not, there are still places that can't get any broadband without going OTA or Satellite which costs $100+/mo so add another $1000+ to the cost/yr. To be able to use the internet they are going to need a computer so add another $1000. The student also needs a supervisor, if mom & dad both work you now have to hire a baby-sitter. That can cost upwards of $3000/yr depending on location and the specifics of the situation... So roughly $7k for one child, and $3-4k for each additional child... If you feel like that is truly obtainable by EVERYONE then you are clearly in denial about the conditions a LOT of people live in... do you get outside of NWI much? There are parts of this state where people truly are impoverished and make less in a year than most in NWI probably spend on their mortgage in 4 months time, and there is very little "industry" to support higher paying jobs...

 

[sadclownwp]

Trust me, you're not "schooling" anyone with your link ... let me refer you to Laurel Springs K-8 Tuition Options
$2300 per/yr tuition for k-5 and it gets more expensive after that. That's for an online school. What are some other items that a student would need to be a part of that school? It's an online school, which implies an internet connection, broadband to be specific. Believe it or not, there are still places that can't get any broadband without going OTA or Satellite which costs $100+/mo so add another $1000+ to the cost/yr. To be able to use the internet they are going to need a computer so add another $1000. The student also needs a supervisor, if mom & dad both work you now have to hire a baby-sitter. That can cost upwards of $3000/yr depending on location and the specifics of the situation... So roughly $7k for one child, and $3-4k for each additional child... If you feel like that is truly obtainable by EVERYONE then you are clearly in denial about the conditions a LOT of people live in... do you get outside of NWI much? There are parts of this state where people truly are impoverished and make less in a year than most in NWI probably spend on their mortgage in 4 months time, and there is very little "industry" to support higher paying jobs...

I realize that there are a lot of people who can't afford to have kids that do, but that needs to be their problem not anyone else's. The only one who should have to pay a cent for a child are the parents of the child. The real question is, if someone has a child that can't afford it, how do you make it financially only hurt the parent and not the child without burdening the tax payers. This is why welfare needs to come with a mandatory vasectomy and a mandatory 40 hr's a week community service.

 

[flashpuppy]

Obliviously you did want kids but medical issues prevented that.

You sir, are imagining things. Show me where I said we didn't want. I said we are choosing not to and left some of the more personal reasons for that decision out. Where do you get the justification for calling me selfish?

 

[1775usmarine]

You sir, are imagining things. Show me where I said we didn't want. I said we are choosing not to and left some of the more personal reasons for that decision out. Where do you get the justification for calling me selfish?

"With the way the world seems to be heading... I really don't know. Neither of us really have the desire for kids honestly. We have found our current lifestyle to be quite responsibility free, flexible and financially comfortable. Neither of us really want to give that up. "
your words easy to interpret how you want.

 

[hornadylnl]

"With the way the world seems to be heading... I really don't know. Neither of us really have the desire for kids honestly. We have found our current lifestyle to be quite responsibility free, flexible and financially comfortable. Neither of us really want to give that up. "
your words easy to interpret how you want.

And how do his words have any bearing on your situation?

 

[1775usmarine]

And how do his words have any bearing on your situation?

Now that he added more info since this last post my views have changed.

 

[danmdevries]

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would actually WANT to have kids.